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permaculture - [permaculture] Re: permaculture Digest, Vol 15, Issue 19

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  • From: Scott Pittman <pci@permaculture-inst.org>
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: [permaculture] Re: permaculture Digest, Vol 15, Issue 19
  • Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:29:10 -0600

Michael Kramer wrote:

-snip - Consider the permaculture movement itself. We have people working full-time (gee, how many?), part-time, and volunteering out of personal interest. We have farmers, independent consultants, authors, teachers and some businesses and local guilds. We have people living permaculture at their home level to varying degrees of intensity. Some are active locally, regionally, nationally, and internationally. We have people who live it, others who teach, some who write, others who network, etc. If we applied permaculture to our own movement, we'd use zonation to create a design that will build a strong system; we haven't done it yet, but we could.

I find this use of zonation a very contrived use of the methodology. I think perhaps there is a much better way to articulate movement through social systems. I can't see how the information derived from zonation of intensity of activities in various pursuits leads us to a design conclusion, perhaps I am missing something in your explanation. Since this use of zonation for invisible structures in our culture has absolutely nothing to do with land use, then one must have a totally new description for the activities included in each zone; what would those descriptions be and how would the use of zonation increase our understanding of them?

I think that the same problem would happen when applying sector planning to invisible structures, while this system is quite appropriate for gaining a visual understanding of how various natural flows impact the design site, I think it would be an enormous stretch to apply this to finance, legal, and social systems.

What I'm saying is that rather than trying to make a model fit all situations we might be better off developing new ways to model the flows of various components of invisible structures.


-snip- and it appeals to students because it helps them see the importance of everything from inner spiritual growth to political activism on a global scale. If people examine the frequency and intensity of use of their time, money, self-reflection, personal well-being, and public participation - if we look at everything we do within the continuum of degenerative to regenerative activities and resources - then we can truly design their lives and our society to reflect the ethics and principles of permaculture.

I guess the above comments apply here, with the additional question of how does one quantify frequency of spiritual growth, or political activism in order to determine whether they are placed in zone 3 or zone 5; does zone 5 mean that we have reached samadhi or have become animists.


-snip- the United States doesn't seem to really "want" permaculture yet, even though this society desperately needs it. So we need to go where we're needed, articulate the permacultural Magna Carta for the 21st century, and create social change at all zones of human activity.

I disagree with this statement. I am amazed at the growth of Permaculture in the United States, a slow growth, perhaps, but inexorable and steady. I am happy to see it taught, in part, in universities, used in city planning departments, and so commonly used that the name cannot be copyrighted.

Scott Pittman







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