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  • From: "Graham Burnett" <gb0063551@cableinet.co.uk>
  • To: "permaculture" <permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
  • Subject: Fw: [PermacultureUK] - yield figures
  • Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 17:29:33 -0000


And also;

----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Dixon <mawddach@gn.apc.org>
To: <gb0063551@cableinet.co.uk>
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 8:12 PM
Subject: [PermacultureUK] - yield figures


> ---------------------
> PermacultureUK - The views expressed on this list are not necessarily
> those of the Permaculture Assoc. (Britain)
> http://www.permaculture.org.uk
> ---------------------
> Hi all,
>
> The lack of hard evidence regarding yield in permaculture systems is a long
> standing issue. My own feeling revolves around three issues.
>
> 1. The (over) emphasis on food production as what permaculture is all
> about. Sounds like Greg Williams has gone for this and largely ignored the
> overall system design aspect. As far as I am concerned, permaculture
> design is a strategy for change. A strategy differs from a plan in that it
> contains more than one option; options are made up of techniques. The
> techniques chosen will depend on the site, the occupants and the
> surrounding community and may vary considerably, not just between different
> countries/climates but even between neighbouring sites.
>
> If people are allowed to misinterpret permaculture design as simply a
> technique for growing food (forest gardening) then it is dead easy for them
> to knock it, especially if no one can produce any yield data for their
> forest gardens.
>
>
> 2. The forest garden/conventional veg patch debate. This is an important
> and ongoing debate. I am quite prepared to believe that forest gardens in
> temperate climates can be very productive, especially on a personal/family
> garden level. In my own experience (11 years) I have grown far more food
> in deep mulch annual beds; however, I much prefer playing in my forest
> garden. As far as I can see, forest gardens require FAR more knowledge and
> experience on the part of the gardener (ie. large number of different
> varieties, unusual plants, often unusual cropping techniques, timing, etc.)
> as opposed to reading a seed packet and sticking them in. Its easy for us
> to forget this after years of experience.
>
>
> 3. When teaching permaculture design (talks, courses etc) we need to be
> honest. Over enthusiasm and exaggeration may fire people up but are
> counter-productive in the long term and can lead to confusion or
> disillusionment. We should teach and talk from what we know and walk.
>
> Speaking personally, when I teach permaculture design I present a variety
> of techniques for growing food, including forest gardens. I make no big
> claims for yields because I do not have the evidence. I do think that if
> you wish to make big claims for yield in forest gardens you do need to have
> the evidence to back it up.
>
>
> With regards to yield figures, I did collect some basic data which is
> available on my web site;
>
> http://www.konsk.co.uk/design/argelacs.htm
>
> -this is a page on Argel, the wilderness regeneration site and my attempts
> to quantify yield there.
>
> For a very sane approach to permaculture and gardening, particularly the
> forest garden/veg patch debate see David Holngren's article on "gardening
> as agriculture" which is on his excellent web site;
>
> http://www.spacountry.net.au/holmgren
>
> Anyway, enough for now.
>
> Heddwch!
>
> Chris Dixon
>
> --- PermacultureUK
> Permaculture discussion list to join click on the link below
> mailto:permaculture.forum@ntlworld.com?Subject=subscribe
> and send off the email
>




  • Fw: [PermacultureUK] - yield figures, Graham Burnett, 01/08/2002

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