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RE: permaculture digest: December 04, 2000

From: "MARSHALL CHROSTOWSKI" <mcfarm@silcom.com>
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
Subject: RE: permaculture digest: December 04, 2000
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 23:05:50 -0800

Xavier, you remember pretty good. I spent part of today engine searching,
found lots of hits but all came back to two publications: ACRES USA an
article by Tom Valentine in 1994 and a summary of this article in NEXUS in
1995. There have been anecdotle reports of danger to babies, a death
attributable to microwaved blood. Nexus article mentioned a test with
kittens earlier than Swiss study. I couldn't find the study but did get the
English version of the legal judgement against the engineer, banning him
from speaking out or doing more research on the subject. I hadn't heard
about him getting rights back, especially the right of free expression which
is almost and US Constitution item and rarely guaranteered elsewhere in the
world.

If the Swiss work was on the level, I can't believe that others haven't
stepped foward. I must say that as a formerly trained scientist and from
the outlines of the study, it seems likely that the research design was
really flawed but it's hard to tell from a fifth-hand retelling in a second
language.

Seedman

Subject: Re: Microwaved food
From: Xavier dequaire <xavier@futurich.com>
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 07:53:22 +0100
X-Message-Number: 1

as far as I can recall from some articles some years ago,
there had been done 3 "serious" scientifical researches on microwavs ovens.
One swiss scientist wrote a report after some research: he discovered that
after
ingesting microwaved food, the blood structure changed and showed
characteristics that
you find in early stage of cancer...
he was squeezed out of his position in research by important electrical
industry
lobbies: no money, no right to publish, no right to research to afine and
pursue the
research. (it is said that it ended in European Court, and he won back the
right of
publishing as a right of free expression)
I read about two other research, one financed by the industry that did not
find any
harm in microwave and an other one that was neutral. at that time it was
recommanded
though not to warm up milk for babies (just in case)
actually the high energy microwaves change the quality og long protein
chains making
them less valuable as nutrients or harmfull. (meaning that microwaved
ingredients are
no more suitable as food)
IMHO there is a more need for further research.
It seems to be common in bio.labs to use microwave ovens to sterilize
equipment, that
is kill all possible life-
i do not like the idea of eating dead food, as I see food as the essential
support of
the life of my body:
feed life with life
other stories from some consumer report on the ovens showed that a very
large
majority of those did not comply external radiation limitation, the leaking
is also
radiating outside the box, that means exposing you and your brain (as those
ovens are
often placed high) to those deadly radiations....
Microwave ovens participate too to the fast food, stressed model of
society...
prepare food with love
as mentionned by some one, many nutritionnist (from the alternative schools:
macrobiotic etc.. will tell you that the food remembers how it is warmed up,
and
microwaves are nothing good to forward your stomach...
I keep off the micro wave

bon apetit

Xavier

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Grapevines in pots
From: Xavier dequaire <xavier@futurich.com>
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 08:58:11 +0100
X-Message-Number: 2

a grape vine characteristic is to grow in welldrained/dry/stony soils
and having very long roots finding nutriens and water very deep in the
ground-
Pots do not seem to provide these conditions

but then you do not need access to much soil at all, I have seen
thriving vines growing out of a hole in a concrete cover and up to a
second floor. A far as the vine can establish the deep roots... and it
seems roots grow pretty easely and fast

Xavier

> Dear Friends, does anyone have experience with growing grapevines in
> big pots? Do they grow well and produce? Cement pots, clay pots or
> wooden?? Permaculture in urban Sao Paulo. The climate here is ok for
> american grapes when they are planted in soil, but I am doubtful in
> relation to big pots.......any clues????Thanks Pete---

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Microwaved food
From: Hugh Lovel <uai@alltel.net>
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 04:27:15 -0500
X-Message-Number: 3

Xavier dequaire writes:

>Microwave ovens participate too to the fast food, stressed model of
society...
>prepare food with love
>as mentionned by some one, many nutritionnist from the alternative schools:
>macrobiotic etc. will tell you that the food remembers how it is warmed up,
and
>microwaves are nothing good to forward your stomach...
>I keep off the micro wave
>
>
>bon apetit
>
>Xavier
>

Mon Ami,

I fo sho am wit you dere. I can' imagine no self-respectin' cook from the
bayou cookin' his crawfish nor his onion or garlac in de microwave. Dat
would make no sense at all. A man who love hees food is gon' take hees time
an cook eet in de pot or de pan with jus' the rat amoun' of flame an no more
an no less. An den--

Bon apetit,
Hugh Lovel

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Costa Rica Permaculture Course
From: "SEED PEACE" <seedpeace@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 00:55:22 -0800
X-Message-Number: 4

<html><DIV>
Permaculture Design Certification Course and Eco-Tour in Costa Rica 

(Registration Form/Photos/More Info at: www.permacultureportal.com)


<CENTER>
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 width=705>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=center>
Join us February 14 - March 7,
2001 for a diverse, intensive, and fun learning experience combining
the standard Permaculture curriculum with a tour of Costa Ricas homegrown
sustainability practices. Along the way we will enjoy recreational
activities, while also learning about the ecology and culture of Costa Rica.
This course is part of the Gandoca-Manzanillo Permaculture Trail
Project the project will contribute to protecting the vital biological
corridors of the primary rain forest and rehabilitate deforested areas,
while demonstrating ecologically sustainable livelihoods for local Costa
Ricans.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER>


Punta Mona Permaculture Center

<BLOCKQUOTE>Beyond the reaches of the automobile or the telephone, the 30
acre Punta Mona (Monkey Point) Permaculture Center is located on a coconut
fringed crescent beach extending for miles, where monkeys, sea turtles,
iguanas and birds are more common than people. We will live and learn where
tropical gardens merge with the rainforest.</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>We will encounter dolphins, monkeys, exotic birds &
butterflies, corral reefs, beaches, waterfalls, hot springs, and much more .
. . all in our journeys on lush tropical trails.</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>You can spend your free time relaxing on the beach, swimming in
the Caribbean Sea or trekking through the surrounding primary jungle! A
palm-thatched lodge, cabinas and platform tents provide ample shelter should
a tropical storm pass through.</BLOCKQUOTE>
Course Format
<DIR>
During the first week of the course we will learn Permaculture design
theory through observational walks, hands-on projects, lectures,
discussions, and multimedia presentations. 
The entire second week will be an educational field trip to other
Permaculture farms, agricultural experimental stations and nurseries, an
extensive medicinal herb farm, an indigenous reserve and a rare tropical
fruit farm. We will also go white water rafting through a cloud forest and
visit an active volcano. 
On the third week we will return to Punta Mona to apply what we learned
during the first two weeks to hands-on Permaculture design projects for the
benefit of the local community and ecosystem.</DIR>

<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 width=796>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top width="100%">
<BLOCKQUOTE>Projects will
include:</BLOCKQUOTE>
<UL>
<UL>
<LI>Permaculture designs </LI>
<LI>Nursery establishment </LI>
<LI>Poultry forage rotation </LI>
<LI>Tropical tree crops </LI>
<LI>Useful palms </LI>
<LI>Perennial tropical vegetables </LI>
<LI>Natural building and thatching </LI>
<LI>Water catchment </LI>
<LI>Solar energy systems </LI>
<LI>Small-scale aquaculture systems </LI></UL></UL></TD>
<TD vAlign=center width=0%> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Curriculum

As part of the standard Permaculture curriculum students will learn:

<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 width=726>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top width="71%">
<UL>
<LI>Permaculture Design Principles
& Methodologies</LI>
<LI>Patterns in Nature</LI>
<LI>Reading the Landscape & Site Analysis</LI>
<LI>Natural Time Cycles & Successional Planning</LI>
<LI>Indigenous Cultivation Traditions & Practices</LI>
<LI>Ecosystem Restoration / Toxin Bioremediation</LI>
<LI>Soil Building, Erosion Control, & Earthworks</LI>
<LI>Hydrology & Aquaculture</LI>
<LI>On-site Waste Disposal & Recycling</LI>
<LI>Biological Pest-Control</LI>
<LI>Home Gardens & Edible Landscaping</LI>
<LI>Forest Management & Agroforestry</LI>
<LI>Integrated Animal Systems</LI>
<LI>Design for Catastrophe</LI>
<LI>Building Design & Energy Conservation</LI>
<LI>Natural Architecture & Alternative Construction</LI>
<LI>Renewable Energy Resources</LI>
<LI>Appropriate Technology</LI>
<LI>Financial & Legal Structures / Strategies</LI>
<LI>Urban Permaculture & Village Design</LI>
<LI>Alternative Economics & Local Self-Reliance</LI>
<LI>Bioregionalism & Network Activism</LI></UL></TD>
<TD vAlign=center width="29%">
<IMG
src="http://lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/dasp/Img/CE_PermaTrails/CE_
PTManAtFarm.jpg"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Course Instructors

<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 width=780>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD height=72 vAlign=top width="8%">
 </TD>
<TD height=72 vAlign=center width="92%">
Douglas Bullock, our primary instructor, helped design and develop his
site on Orcas Island - which has been described as the best example of
Permaculture in North America. With decades of teaching and practice across
the globe, Douglas has extensive experience in all aspects of Permaculture
design. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 width=765>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top width="8%">
 </TD>
<TD vAlign=top width="92%">
Bruce Hill, Costa Rican born, has practiced Permaculture in Argentina,
Bolivia, Tennessee, and Maui among other places. He teaches regularly with
Doug Bullock and he has an "encyclopedic" knowledge of plants from around
the world.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 width=750>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top width="8%">
 </TD>
<TD vAlign=top width="92%">
Stephen Brooks, director of Costa Rican Adventures, has lived in Costa
Rica for five years, leading tours for a variety of interest groups, and
cultivating The Punta Mona Permaculture Center into the lush sanctuary of
biodiversity that it is today.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 width=772>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top width="8%">
 </TD>
<TD vAlign=top width="92%">
Lucas Mayorgo is a member of the Bribri Indigenous Tribe and lives within
the Kekoldi Indigenous Reserve. Although never officially schooled in
Permaculture, Lucas and his people have practicing their form of
Permaculture for thousands of
years.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 width=772>
<TBODY>

<TR>
<TD vAlign=top width="8%">
 </TD>
<TD vAlign=center width="92%">
Florentino Grenald is Afro-Caribbean and grew up on the Caribbean coast
long before electricity, phones and even a road had ever known the small
fishing village of Manzanillo. His knowledge of the local flora and fauna is
extensive.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<DIR>
Additional Instructors:
<DIR>
<DIR>
Sylvio Bonomelli is Italian and has been living in an isolated community
in the mountains on the Caribbean coast of Costa Rica. He has extensive
knowledge about alternative building materials, extremely low impact living
and organic gardening.
Assistant guest speakers involved with the Gandoca-Manzanillo
Permaculture Trails Project and local practitioners will add to discussions
and offer special presentations.</DIR></DIR></DIR>
Local Benefits

<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 width=772>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD height=114 vAlign=top width="6%">
 </TD>
<TD height=114 vAlign=top width="94%">
This course is part of the "Gandoca-Manzanillo Permaculture Trail
Project." The Gandoca-Manzanillo Wildlife Refuge is the beneficiary of the
courses surplus revenue. Your group design projects will center on this
trail and we will produce an influx of fresh ideas and motifs for its
growth. The Permaculture Trail Project is sponsoring thirteen Costa Rican
students. The students will stay on after the course and apply their
knowledge to complete "the trail of beauty and bounty that leads to
community sustainability." </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Academic Credit, Apprenticeships, & Scholarships
<DIR>
Academic credits are often available to college students attending a
Permaculture course; which easily satisfies environmental science
requirements and could be assigned to other disciplines in this inclusive
multi-disciplinary field. Students who are interested in academic credit
should petition their counselor; ask us for suggestions.
Apprenticeship opportunities are available for students who show an
interest in pursuing long-term experiential training in Permaculture. We
will have plenty of good work after the course for people who wish to apply
the information at the Gandoca-Manzanillo Permaculture Trail, and at other
related Permaculture sites around the country. Apprenticeship, with food,
water, & lodging, are offered; in exchange we ask for committed
participation in community building and environmental restoration.
Scholarships will only be available to thirteen local workers who are
committed to implementing the designs for the Permaculture Trail at
Gandoca-Manzanillo Wildlife Refuge (probably residents of Gandoca or
Manzanillo; but, open to all native Ticos).
"Permaculture" is a copyrighted word; only upon completion of a
certification course does one have the right to employ the term Permaculture
for their goods and services. With this basic certificate one is considered
a design trainee and after two years of field practice one may apply to the
International Permaculture Institute for a Designers Diploma, whereupon one
has the authority to teach, consult and represent Permaculture. Permaculture
is a rapidly expanding profession and ecological movement, with more active
practitioners around the globe than the entire US Peace Corp.</DIR>
Food, Lodging & Transportation

<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 width=997>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top width="77%">
<DIR>
We will offer three meals per
day, plus foraging in the gardens and fruit from the trees. Please inform us
of your dietary needs and preferences in the registration form. Hotel rooms
will be provided during the tour. If you would like to camp outside be sure
your tent is waterproof and preferably large enough for your comfort, easy
to disassemble, yet compact enough to transport. Air-travel and all ground
transportation will be arranged by Costa Rican Adventures. You may contact
Costa Rican Adventures if you want them to arrange your plane flight at
(800) 551-7887.</DIR></TD>
<TD vAlign=top width="23%">
<IMG
src="http://lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/dasp/Img/CE_PermaTrails/CE_
PTFruitFromTrees.jpg"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Costs, Registration & Contact
<DIR>
The cost of this program, including meals, field trips, certified
instruction, and all course materials, is $1475.00 - airfare not included.
If you pay by December 20th, you receive a $125 discount. To register,
please print, fill out and send the Registration Form on our website:
www.permacultureportal.com. While we encourage payment in full at the time
of registration we will accept an $300.00 deposit, with the balance due upon
arrival. If you pay the balance due when you arrive, you do not receive the
pre-registration deadline discount of $125. Please make check or money order
payable to Costa Rican Adventures.</DIR>
Mail To: Costa Rican Adventures 13225 Biscayne Island
Terrace North Miami, Florida, 33181, USA
Contact Michael Paine at (877) 901-6120 or <A
href="mailto:justinpaine@hotmail.com";>justinpaine@hotmail.com</A>
Visit <A
href="http://www.permacultureportal.com/";>www.PermaculturePortal.com</A> for Photos and More Information
 </DIV> <hr>Get more from the Web.
FREE MSN Explorer download : <a
href="http://explorer.msn.com";>http://explorer.msn.com</a> </html>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Corn in =?iso-8859-1?Q?Australia=2DGMO=B4s?=
From: David Holmgren <holmgren@netconnect.com.au>
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 14:53:25 +0100
X-Message-Number: 5

Hullo Marsha, here is a radio program on the GMO scene. This has to
be the best investigative journalism program in Australia.
Cheers, Su Dennett

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/bbing/s216903.htm
--
David Holmgren & Su Dennett
Holmgren Design Services
Hepburn Permaculture Gardens
16 Fourteenth St,
Hepburn. 3461.
Australia.
Ph/fax 0353483636
Email holmgren@netconnect.com.au
Website http://www.spacountry.net.au/holmgren

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: protecting wooden poles
From: John Irwin <jwirwin@permaculture.net>
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 13:38:39 -0500
X-Message-Number: 6

Have you tried bamboo?

"Guy (Guy Brouk)" wrote:

> The cement tank issue is quite interesting, thanks.
>
> Can anyone give me a natural/safe/cheap solution to protect wooden
> poles from humidity ?
>
> The poles we use for refugees shelters have to be replaced frequently
> in tropical areas because the underground part rots.
>
> Asante (thanks). Guy
>
> ---
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Water Catchment Walls-Water quality
From: "Marsha Hanzi" <hanzibra@svn.com.br>
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 12:50:08 -0200
X-Message-Number: 7

I also recommendo highly the book Living Energies , about Viktor
Schauberger´s work on water quality. There it shows that the form of the
tank can improve the quality of the water. (Written by Callum Coats)...and
much more.

Marsha

----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Pittman <pci@permaculture-inst.org>
To: permaculture <permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 7:17 PM
Subject: Re: Water Catchment Walls

> Toby, I'm not currently drinking roof caught water but am building it into
> my new house. I have drank cistern water in Australia, South America, and
> Southeast Asia and certainly trust it more than well or surface water in
> those areas. I don't know of a single case of anyone in those areas
> treating water with anything. The primary safety measure is to have a
roof
> wash mechanism which takes the first gallons that falls on the roof and
> dumps it in growing beds or some other useful place and then diverts the
> water from the cleaned roof to the cistern. Other than using limestone,
or
> marble chips to raise the pH I don't think anything else is necessary.
> There is a natural biological process that takes place in the cistern
which
> sequesters most organic matter in a mat on the bottom of the tank,
> therefore it is good to have your outlet some 18 inches above the bottom
of
> the tank to avoid the accumulated material. It is a bad idea to clean and
> sterilize your tank, unless you manage to get a dead animal in it, because
> it destroys beneficial bacteria.
>
> One of the best sources on Cistern Catchment is through the CSIRO web site
> in Australia. I have found them extremely helpful in the past.
>
> Scott
>
> At 07:49 AM 12/1/00 -0800, you wrote:
> >I'm curious to know how many people using rainwater actually drink it,
and
> >what kind of treatment they use.
> >
> >We have a metal roof (colorbond) and a 5000-gallon concrete tank that we
use
> >for everything but drinking. Our well water sucks, so I'd like to begin
> >drinking the cistern water, but haven't sorted out all the many possible
> >treatment options.
> >
> >The other issue with the cistern is our wood stove. We haven't graduated
to
> >a masonry or other clean-burning stove yet, so the smoke wafts across the
> >roof, and imparts a faint smoky flavor (creosote?) to the water, which is
> >the main reason I'm not drinking it.
> >
> >Toby
> >
> >
> >---
> >You are currently subscribed to permaculture as:
pci@permaculture-inst.org
> >To unsubscribe send a blank email to
leave-permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu
> >Get the list FAQ at:
> >http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/documents/permaculture.faq
>
>
> ---
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>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Corn_in_Australia-GMO=B4s?=
From: "Marsha Hanzi" <hanzibra@svn.com.br>
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 12:44:30 -0200
X-Message-Number: 8

Thnks for the tip! Will look into it..

Marsha

----- Original Message -----
From: David Holmgren <holmgren@netconnect.com.au>
To: permaculture <permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: Corn in Australia-GMO´s

> Hullo Marsha, here is a radio program on the GMO scene. This has to
> be the best investigative journalism program in Australia.
> Cheers, Su Dennett
>
> http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/bbing/s216903.htm
> --
> David Holmgren & Su Dennett
> Holmgren Design Services
> Hepburn Permaculture Gardens
> 16 Fourteenth St,
> Hepburn. 3461.
> Australia.
> Ph/fax 0353483636
> Email holmgren@netconnect.com.au
> Website http://www.spacountry.net.au/holmgren
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: hanzibra@svn.com.br
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
leave-permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu
> Get the list FAQ at:
http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/documents/permaculture.faq
>

---

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RE: permaculture digest: December 04, 2000, MARSHALL CHROSTOWSKI, 12/05/2000