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Subject: permaculture
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- From: "askpv" <askpv@ozemail.com.au>
- To: <IPC7@egroups.com>
- Cc: "Permaculture" <permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
- Subject: ISO14000
- Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 10:33:23 +1000
Thanks for your insights Terry,
My concern here
is that permaculture in boardrooms is easily redressed as ISO14000.
few
people may know about this standard, but if you give yourselves time to look at
it you'll be impressed.
a lot of the leg work has been done and all the
details necessary for business standards is covered. (but it is simply a
springboard from
which a more holistic design process can be
developed)
The standard is comprehensive, international and appeals to both
community and industry in terms of
putting a price on all activities
(manufacturing through to polluting).
As for a theme for IPC7 I like
the 'beyond' concept even though it is early days for our ISO projects.
Our sister company SMS has been running
for 4 years in that direction
writing pioneering material actually because there aren't many
companies involved yet and they represent a
narrow range.
Companies are prepared to have Environmental Management as an extension of QA and Total Quality Management systems, and that is really encouraging. It means we have a system that can be tacked on; is similar in its approach to existing QA systems and in jargon that is familiar.
what is triggering ISO's growth is
two-fold:
1. litigation and
preventive action,
2. value adding in terms of broadening the consumer
market.)
I find it interesting that Sydney airport has had major
pollution in the air-conditioning ducts this week, such a tiny accident
(spillage of cleaning fluid in a duct)
leading to a huge litigation
disaster. Nothing can be overlooked in
an Environmental Management System. It also demonstrates how easy it would
be
to plant a gas-bomb there and yet there has been high security for years,
cranked up further by the Olympics.
April
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-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Leahy [mailto:LEAHY@psychology.newcastle.edu.au]
Sent: Friday, 15
September 2000 12:15
To: IPC7@egroups.com
Subject: RE: [IPC7] theme ideas
for IPC7
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Dear
Permaculture Group,
I like Sharon Gordon's new suggestion - from
backyards to boardrooms and
beyond because it gives a bit of an idea of the
scope of permaculture
strategies rather than prioritising one as the only
useful one. I am a bit
bothered by the implication that people who may
have some qualms about the
boardrooms title are warm fuzzies. The
implication is that we have moral
objections to getting interest from
business because we don't like what
they do and have done. Its also
implied that we are cutting off our nose
to spite our face. This may be
true sometimes and for some people.
Personally I am really keen to see any
kind of business interest or
profitable sustainable enterprise get up.
But an opposite charge could be
that people who have great optimism about the
willingness of businesses to
participate in earth care are a bit warm and
fuzzy when it comes to
business.
For most managers of companies the
bottom line has to be profitablity.
This is not because these guys are evil
and never have any other thought in
their heads. It's just the fact
that investors ultimately determine
whether a company goes to the wall -
these decisions are made by
stockbrokers and their computers. Yeah,
bring on ethical investment but
lets admit that the 5% of the population of
rich countries that owns 90% of
the share capital are not that heavily into
it at the moment.
Do business optimists think it is in most cases just as
profitable to
operate within the parameters of sustainability as to operate
without those
limitations? All we environmentalists need to do is
to point out that
mass of really profitable ways to build a sustainable
economy and companies
will beat a path to our doorstep. Do you really think
this??? Sure, it
makes heaps of sense to encourage this direction but
lets not pretend that
in the present situation with the market that now
exists, rather than the
one we'd ideally like, that it is actually true
now. For example, it is an
unfortunate fact that coal fired power is
still the cheapest form of power
in most locations and that consumers don't
want to buy a lot of electricity
at a higher price. It is an unfortunate fact
that organic food costs more
in rich countries because of the price of the
labour inputs and that at the
present time there is a limited market of
people who want to pay more. I
could go on.
I feel very worried
saying all this. I don't want permaculture to be split
by silly and
unnecessary political disagreements. I really respect people
like Simon
and Steve who want to work with businesses to encourage
sustainable
alternatives within companies. I really agree with
permaculturists who
are sick of working as volunteers and being pressured
ethically to do more
and more of this - they should be getting a solid
income. There are no
absolutely wonderful alternatives to working with
business. Trying to
pressure governments and political parties, working
with NGOs and creating
cooperatives that combine voluntary work with
business are all tried and true
strategies that exist alongside working
with companies. I certainly
don't think we should sit on our hands and
wait for an anti-capitalist
revolution etc etc. I suppose that what
finally got me writing about
this was the implication that a hard nosed
realistic position is working with
business and anything else is naive,
self sacrificing and ineffective. It's
not true; a spirit of self sacrifice
and stupid naivety is not the sole
property of any of the various
strategies for improving the global
environment!
In terms of a speaker I would like us to invite Jules Pretty
from the UK.
He has done a lot of work on sustainable agriculture in a global
context
and his main angle is that it makes sense economically in many
situations
though not in others, that it requires intervention at the grass
roots that
is based on genuine participation by locals to be
effective.
Terry.
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- ISO14000, askpv, 09/17/2000
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