permaculture

[rick valley <bamboogrove@cmug.com>]

A look from my perspective at why the issue of copyright has been repeatedly
raised:
>We are
>too
>> far along the pathway of no return to squabble about ownership and
>copyrights.
>- Lance 
Well- you hear similar comments frequently in Pc and other potentially
world-changing movements; but isn't one of our ideas that the means does not
justify the end, and does not this great urgency lead one directly to the
idea of the contrary?

>permaculture certainly does have the 'inner messsiness' which Judith
>describes.
>But that's to be expected and I'm sure that other new systems have
>experienced something analogous.
 
And Lance's recounting of similar experience in the pagan scene would agree
with that.
> This discussion has revealed that rather than copyright, it would
>have been trademarking which was necessary to control use of the word
>'permaculture'.

I can give numerous examples of things that struck me as "not Kosher" that
have occured; slides taken of Andrew Jeeves' illustrations from Mollison's
Manual being sold as a set being one. There have been abuses! I began
teaching Pc because I sat in on a "permaculture" class being taught by
someone (who had never taken a PDC, and 12 years later still hasn't and still
doesn't get it) I was utterly horrified at how twisted it came out- not
positive, not solution-oriented, promoting confusion, depression and burnout.

>Surely this international forum is the right place to discuss such issues
>openly and in detail, even if some of us find it tedious....
>it is good that a serious, intense discussion has happened at last, a
>discussion between colleagues carried out in a mostly calm, objective,
>professional, solutions-oriented manner. This is the critical role of an
>intremational discussion list.

Isn't this why we have subject thread headings? If it's tedious for someone,
by all means, they ought to skip it! 

>> -- are there other lists that focus on the 'getting into
>>permaculture' practical experience sharing? 
>
>> Should the list custodians set
>>up two separate lists?

And how many of us Pc kommisars/old guard veterans would hang out in a list
that was for us just assisting newcomers? We must value the questions and not
run newcomers off, but as well they need to appreciate that we've got our
interests too! 

And we all need, too, to be looking ahead: Bill has done most of his life's
work; he began standing on other's shoulders, and has worked with others all
along. We are all permaculture, and we are carrying it on. It is fine to
respect Bill's wishes; I think there's good intentions behind them all. No
need to say "that's one ego's trip"; take it positively and look at how you
can work with it.
-Rick


Rick Valley Northern Groves 
PO Box 1236, Philomath, OR 97370 
Mobile-(541)602-1315, hm.& msg. (541)456-4364  Bamboo catalog $3 or at 
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