permaculture

["askpv" <askpv@ozemail.com.au>]

I have always admired everyone who works in permaculture for their efforts at promoting it.
I am happy to apologise to anyone who feels accused of stealing when they weren't. 

I have been on the net in permaculture for 6 years now and maybe I am turning into a grouchy old woman.
I am feeling tired of finding copies, i keep searching for invention, for creativity and a chance for permaculture to move on.

I am concerned with what is legal, but even more concerned with
1. what is ethical
and
2. what will force Bill to take more control over.
I have mentioned this before and my fears are rising.
what i see right now is a growing trend for Bill to feel compelled to control the 'distribution' of his work, this has been brought on
by either a real or perceived mis-use of Bill's work. 
We have seen a number of cases in recent years of people presenting his work as their own. 
[I am not talking about my own work - I take what measures i can to protect it and it is not my main source of income or permaculture work. and did you know
that in my own case some people have even had the decency to ask could they copy all my texts and set up doing exactly what we do for free, without even
thinking it may cause some limiting of our services here - some people can't see the impact of their 'duplication' for want of a euphemism].

I believe Permaculture will only shrink with copyright controls getting tighter and tighter. 
I like standards (as you may know i work in ISO14000 Environmental standards)
so i like some 'controls', but i also believe permaculture needs freedom to move forward.

We are now looking at controls on teaching bodies too coming into play, (this is only a rumour
and i hope it is wrong).  It had been suggested to me that another teaching body was not producing an adequate course (and i did get to see a copy of
their notes and they were inadequate for the teaching situation)
so should be no longer allowed to distribute certificates. 

Some teaching bodies have grown to be really well organised and providing texts that
are suitable for university courses etc, some teaching bodies are less organised but in their doing permaculture.
both are valuable teaching and it should be up to the student to chose who is most suitable for them. 
[Without actually seeing the notes and doing the course it is really hard to compare the different bodies.
from the outset the course outlines are very flimsy so unless the 'controlling body' lifts it's
game and endorses a better course guideline there will be variable standards. ]

If Bill chooses to get tougher on the whole game, it will die quickly.
Lets encourage people to move forward, to find new logos, to develop further techniques
and resources such as plant lists through to soft technologies.

I would feel time is wasted if i had to invent a new name, a new organisation for a similar lifestyle movement.  The term permaculture is now better known,
on TV and making some inroads into mainstream.

April

-----Original Message-----
From: Pacific Edge Permaculture [mailto:pacedge@magna.com.au]
Sent: Monday, 31 July 2000 11:36
To: Permaculture australia 1
Subject: Logo Symbolism & other threads


Forwarded in pursuance of copyright issue...
----------
> From: 1Earth Permaculture <permaculture@start.com.au>
> Reply-To: "permaculture" <permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 15:21:29 +1000
> To: "permaculture" <permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> Subject: Re: Logo Symbolism & other threads
>
> April wrote:
>> I do want to point out that unless you own the rainbow snake design
> you >should take it off immediately, this is copyrighted and the
> hassle for us >on the web is that many people steal each others
> work...
>
> Toby wrote:
>> Scanning the egg and posting it to a website is so easy we forget
> we're >stealing from a live person.
>> I want to point out ... how technology is making it easy to forget
> and >mistreat the humans behind it.
>
> Let's not forget that other great set of laws - defamation of
> character, particularly the laws concerning libel (the written form of
> defamation).  These laws have already been tested in the USA and
> Australia and found valid if the libel occurs on a web list such as
> this.
>
> Accusations of "stealing" can be construed to be too strong a
> description of what has actually occured, particularly considering:
>
> Darren Doherty wrote:
>> I stayed with Bill Mollison for a couple of days last week and on
> Friday >he recieved by post the trademark approval for the
> Permaculture Egg Logo >which, as I understand it clears that issue
> right up - once and for all.
>
> So, from what I read here, the logo has been trademarked for a week.
>
> I have seen the egg logo on many a permaculture website, and on many a
> permaculture teacher's course handouts, flyers and business cards.
> The Designer's Manual says :"Permaculture ... copyright is vested in
> the Permaculture Institutes and their College of Graduates ..."
>
> As a 25 year media veteran, the first thing I checked when commencing
> my permaculture website 2 years ago, was the issue of copyright, and I
> was told by the PRI head that PDC graduates were able to use the logo
> to promote their permaculture work.  My PDC class was told the same
> thing, that we were able to use aspects of "permaculture" as long as
> we did not copy Bill's work whoelsale.  Obviously Bill's recent press
> releases and his trademarking the logo have changed that opinion.
>
> To avoid further accusations of "stealing" the logo, I have linked it
> to the Manual, until I design a new front page for the site (which was
> badly needed anyway as there are many new web pages coming online this
> week).
>
> April wrote:
>> It is illegal and unethical to re-present someone else's web pages.
> April wrote:
>> I think you need a few tips of netiquette ... it is illegal to
> re-banner >a web page without permission.
> Rich wrote:
>> Just to confirm that Marcus has arranged with us to host the
> Australian >mirror of the Plants For A Future database.
>
> April, obviously our interpretations of netiquette are different.  I
> certainly would never accuse anyone of stealing until I knew the
> facts. An apology is in order, don't you think?
>
> Marcus
>
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