| “ once the final break is made between reality and language Arguments will generate their own Force and lay out their own logical rules” Dr Walker Percy
We are going Away from the concrete towards the abstract Away from our first causes
From the poem Dumbness by Thomas Traherne “The first impressions are Immortal All” (He italicized this line )
We humans are getting more and More confused by our vanities and their words Thank you
Sent from my iPhone On May 10, 2020, at 5:28 PM, Justin Bonanno <bonannju AT gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting article, thanks for sharing. I wish Percy were here to parody this. Just imagine, Sagan waiting for an ETI to send a signal back and Musk in the next room trying to communicate with Sagan via some chip implant in his brain....
Like the General Semanticists, Mr. Musk falls into that unfortunate camp of philosophers who think of language as the mere clothing of thought. First we think, then we communicate, they say. Not so, says Percy (and Langer and others). Language renders the world formulable for me and you. Musk's dream of communication is an angelic one (with no sensible mediation necessary).
Also, the reference to Ong and the reflections on technology (writing, computers) seem very apropos here, indeed! Send Percy-L mailing list submissions to
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: End of homo loquens? (honeyjbc1 .)
2. Re: End of homo loquens? (hebrunson AT aol.com)
3. Re: End of homo loquens? (Ken Armstrong)
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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 12:04:22 -0400
From: "honeyjbc1 ." <honeyjbc AT gmail.com>
To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
<percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [percy-l] End of homo loquens?
Message-ID:
<CAG4ie03zqk8RsVmikPh7BdB0++CwtKonucJKH8fZfQFs2my_PA AT mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
In my comment I meant "no longer" but my helpful phone spellchecker changed
it to need longer.
Are we already on the way when communication is so often by texting? I go
out to lunch and too often a conversation is inhibited because someone is
texting instead of conversing.
Me I love to talk.
On Sun, May 10, 2020, 11:22 AM Charles Lowry <lowry.charles AT gmail.com>
wrote:
> The only reason some of us are still alive (or still in a relationship or
> still employed or or still able to shop at a particular bakery or pharmacy
> or hardware store) is that there is a difference between homo loquens and
> homo cogitans. The best interrogators and the best negotiators have been
> able to thrive by blurring the line between homo loquens and homo
> cogitans. How soon before Musk?s development goes from ?Let me tell you
> telepathically what I want you to know? to ?No need to say a thing; I have
> access to your thoughts?? St. Thomas Aquinas relentlessly insisted that in
> this life all elements of the person were inseparable. When that changes,
> when significant chunks of human interaction can be carried out without a
> physical component, what else changes? At my age it is no sure thing that
> I?ll be here to see any changes in five years, let alone ten, but I think
> I?ll just keep talking as long as I can.
>
> Or did they, long before Elon Musk and St. Thomas, have this same
> conversation when writing was invented?
>
> Chuck Lowry
> Brooklyn, New York
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 10, 2020, at 10:56 AM, honeyjbc1 . <honeyjbc AT gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ?
> It seems we might not lose much if he would need longer talk to others.
>
> On Sun, May 10, 2020, 10:21 AM Marcus Smith <marcus AT loyno.edu> wrote:
>
>> Elon Musk says speech and human language in final years.
>>
>>
>> https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/elon-musk-joe-rogan-podcast-language-neuralink-grimes-baby-a9506451.html
>>
>> Musk seems as big a narcissist as Trump, but Percy would have read the
>> article and had something to say. Can?t begin to guess what he would have
>> said.
>>
>> Why do I recall Umberto Eco?s definition of the ?sign?? Anything that
>> can be used to tell a lie.
>>
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>>
>
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>
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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 18:58:48 +0000 (UTC)
From: hebrunson AT aol.com
To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [percy-l] End of homo loquens?
Message-ID: <1794939019.381654.1589137128516 AT mail.yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">1794939019.381654.1589137128516 AT mail.yahoo.com>
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Before we do this, let's develop a way to avoid the commercials.?Howard Brunson
-----Original Message-----
From: honeyjbc1 . <honeyjbc AT gmail.com>
To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sun, May 10, 2020 7:55 am
Subject: Re: [percy-l] End of homo loquens?
It seems we might not lose much if he would need longer talk to others.
On Sun, May 10, 2020, 10:21 AM Marcus Smith <marcus AT loyno.edu> wrote:
Elon Musk says speech and human language in final years.
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/elon-musk-joe-rogan-podcast-language-neuralink-grimes-baby-a9506451.html
Musk seems as big a narcissist as Trump, but Percy would have read the article and had something to say.? Can?t begin to guess what he would have said. ?
Why do I recall Umberto Eco?s definition of the ?sign??? Anything that can be used to tell a lie. ?
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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 17:09:06 -0400
From: Ken Armstrong <kennenathens AT frontier.com>
To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [percy-l] End of homo loquens?
Message-ID: <a70e75fa-24f4-84d9-508f-6b9c91637bd4 AT frontier.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">a70e75fa-24f4-84d9-508f-6b9c91637bd4 AT frontier.com>
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Thanks for that link, I haven't had a good laugh out loud for a while.
If you watch for a minute or two following the disappearing language
clip, you'll see an ad for a band (with a light on it!) that you wear on
your forehead to improve your thinking. Hang in there. The lapsometer is
next.
Apparently there are a few people on this list who may remember how in
the '50s and '60s there was much handwringing over the television
obsoleting the book. Still -- after computers, the internet, ebooks --
hasn't happened. I remember friends in the '80s who were outright glum
over the sure disappearance of books. The newspapers (ironically) were
full of it. Elon Musk is reacting the way people always have with new
technologies. Give him credit for his money and his can-do attitude, but
don't get carried away. Somewhere Walter Ong notes how the camera
obscura was seen in its time as the model for how the brain works; more
recently the computer had quite a run of advocates proclaiming the same
thing for it and ultimately its superiority to the brain. As the guys in
my prison classes used to say when asked what's new, "Same old same old."
On 5/10/2020 10:20 AM, Marcus Smith wrote:
> Elon Musk says speech and human language in final years.
>
> https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/elon-musk-joe-rogan-podcast-language-neuralink-grimes-baby-a9506451.html
>
> Musk seems as big a narcissist as Trump, but Percy would have read the
> article and had something to say. Can?t begin to guess what he would
> have said.
>
> Why do I recall Umberto Eco?s definition of the ?sign??? Anything that
> can be used to tell a lie.
>
> ----------------------------------
> * Percy-L Discussion Archives: http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/
>
> * Manage Your Membership: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l
>
> * Contact the Moderator: percy-l-owner (at) lists.ibiblio.org
>
> * Visit The Walker Percy Project: http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
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