Percy-L: Literary, Religious, Scientific, and Philosophical Discussion of Walker Percy

["Plemmons, Gregory" <gregory.plemmons AT Vanderbilt.Edu>]

Karl,
I second your impressions--what stuck out for me on my reading of this last 
section is just how unreliable the narrator is quickly becoming. I'm not a 
Percy scholar, either, but I can't help but wonder if Percy was influenced by 
that other great physician-writer Chekhov in this section, as the dark humor 
and descent into disorganization seems to mirror Chekhov's famous short story 
"Ward No. 6". I won't go into details, but it involves a physician who 
directs an asylum ward who eventually becomes...a patient. The gradual 
transition is subtle, never overt, and it creates a lot of tension. And by 
using first-person narration, we're now down in the foxhole, inside Tom's 
mind. It's just not clear how much is virtual and how much is real. Sometimes 
that can be hard to sustain a reader's interest, but madness itself never 
seems arbitrary, at least to the mentally ill...and the tension created 
between what is real and imagined kept me going. It's interesting that Tom's 
institutionalization follows the death of his daughter, and his marriage. We 
don't find out how Samantha dies until the second section, and then in one 
fell swoop: "the neuroblastoma had pushed one eye out and around the 
nosebridge so that Samantha looked like a two-eyed Picasso profile." The 
description seems particularly grotesque (and twentieth-century-modern), 
designed to shock us (as Samantha's cancer did to Tom and Doris), but Tom 
also seems still quite removed from his loss (he's certainly acerbic about 
the death of his marriage). It makes me wonder, in a way,  if Tom has truly 
grieved, or walled it off like an abscess, and if the whole event is at least 
the tacitly unspoken source for his suicide attempt and institutionalization. 
The description of his daughter's illness (the only one we have thus far) 
makes one of the most quoted lines seem even more poignant, at least when I 
re-read it this time: "We love those who know the worst of us and don't turn 
their faces away." 

I found Leroy and Ellen's roll-up-your-sleeves pragmatism and Protestant work 
ethic quite humorous, in comparison to Tom's lapsed and contemplative 
Catholicism ("Leroy believes that doctors do wonders...Doctors see patients. 
Then see patients."). Yet, doctors failed to save Samantha. I often wonder if 
Percy felt a twinge of Catholic guilt for never practicing, or becoming ill 
with tuberculosis, after four years of medical school, or what he thought of 
Chekhov, who spent most of his time eradicating cholera, instead of writing. 
If anyone on the listserv has a reference, let me know. I'm nowhere even an 
amateur theologian, but the choice to make Ellen a staunch Presbyterian 
(faith through actions, rather than words) seemed quite appropriate, as a 
foil. 

Gregory Plemmons



________________________________________
From: Percy-L [percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] on behalf of Lauren Stacy 
Berdy [lauren.stacy.berdy AT gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 11:42 AM
To: janetcantor37 AT yahoo.com; Percy-L@
Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR Slow Read- July 4th

But like Holden, Binx has had specific, terrible things happen to him, a fact 
that sometimes gets lost amid the abstractions. His brother dies on the first 
page. His father essentially commits suicide by enlistment. And Binx’s Korean 
War wound is a turning point in his life: regaining consciousness under a 
chindolea bush, he sees, six inches from his nose, a dung beetle scratching 
in the leaves. “As I watched, there awoke in me an immense curiosity. I was 
onto something. I vowed that if I ever got out of this fix, I would pursue 
the search.”

This crucial scene reinforces Percy’s wider theme of coming to a sense of 
self through ordeal. (“Isn’t it true that the only happy men are wounded 
men?” Kate asks.) But it is also an overt allusion to “War and Peace”! It’s 
the passage where Prince Andrei, gravely wounded at Austerlitz, looks up and 
sees the clouds and the eternal sky, really sees them, for the first time in 
his life. (Prince Andrei gets clouds, Binx a dung beetle.) Binx has read 
“W&P”: he calls it “the novel of novels.” And why not? Don’t forget that the 
Bollings are “a warrior gens.” And war is one of several incrementally 
developed (non-Kierkegaardian!) themes that Percy uses in the novel in lieu 
of a more conventional “plot.”

Lauren Stacy Berdy


On 7/4/2014 9:56 AM, janetcantor37--- via Percy-L wrote:
Also from page 161 Robert the Bruce was reputed to have learned courage from 
watching a spider spin its web.
I keep thinking there is more to that dung beetle from The Moviegoer that 
interests Percy than meets the eye.
Janet Cantor

________________________________
From: Henry Mills <wppdirector AT gmail.com><mailto:wppdirector AT gmail.com>
To:
Sent: Friday, July 4, 2014 8:05 AM
Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR Slow Read- July 4th

Dear Percy-L,

Ralph C. Wood -- author of
The Comedy of Redemption: Christian Faith and Comic Vision in Four American 
Novelists (Flannery O'Connor, Walker Percy, John Updike and Peter De Vries) 
and a University Professor of Theology and Literature at Baylor University -- 
 prepared the following annotations for LITR that may be useful to our 
current slow read of the book.  It's entitled,

    "Annotations for Walker Percy‘s Love in the Ruins"
    Keyed to the Picador USA edition, 1999
    First version by Thomas F. Gossett, 1973; second by Ralph C. Wood, 
revised 1996-2005

The well-structured document contains over 400 entries that comment on 
textual references that may not be clear to modern readers of the book.

See https://bearspace.baylor.edu/Ralph_Wood/www/percy/AnnotLoveInRuins.pdf

Best,
Henry Mills



* Percy-L Discussion Archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/

* Manage Your Membership: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l

* Contact the Moderator: percy-l-owner (at) lists.ibiblio.org

* Visit The Walker Percy Project: http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy




On 7/3/14, 11:09 AM, RHONDA MCDONNELL wrote:

What was interesting for me in the "contradictory Judaism" passage was Tom's 
follow-up: he too gets the same reading . . . And then the lapsometer gets 
tossed!

Sent from my iPad



On Jul 3, 2014, at 8:23 AM, "Charles Cowherd" 
<charlescowherd AT hotmail.com><mailto:charlescowherd AT hotmail.com> wrote:

All,
 So excited to be involved in this "Slow Read" and to benefit from the
group's reading of the book.
Marked passages for me include the "contradictory Judaism" diagnosis on page
54 along with the masterful take on American exceptionalism/ Manifest
Destiny/ 'City on a Hill' narrative on page 57.
Those more than made up for the limitations that I saw in the 1st chapter,
which included Percy's usage of the interrogative to advance both plot and
theme.
Cannot wait for the next section.
` Charles R. Cowherd

-----Original Message-----
From: Percy-L [mailto:percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of
percy-l-request AT lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:percy-l-request AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 9:21 AM
To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Percy-L Digest, Vol 108, Issue 2

Send Percy-L mailing list submissions to
   percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
   http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
   percy-l-request AT lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:percy-l-request AT lists.ibiblio.org>

You can reach the person managing the list at
   percy-l-owner AT lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:percy-l-owner AT lists.ibiblio.org>

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
"Re: Contents of Percy-L digest..."


Today's Topics:

  1. Re: LITR Slow Read - Chapter 1 - "July Fourth" (RHONDA MCDONNELL)
  2. Re: LITR Slow Read - Chapter 1 - "July Fourth" (RHONDA MCDONNELL)
  3. Re: LITR Slow Read - Chapter 1 - "July Fourth" (Karl M. Terrell)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 00:25:31 -0500
From: RHONDA MCDONNELL 
<rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com><mailto:rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com>
To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
   <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org><mailto:percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR Slow Read - Chapter 1 - "July Fourth"
Message-ID: 
<BAY407-EAS22050015C16891A0B964481E4070 AT phx.gbl><BAY407-EAS22050015C16891A0B964481E4070 AT phx.gbl">mailto:BAY407-EAS22050015C16891A0B964481E4070 AT phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"





On Jun 30, 2014, at 7:31 AM, "Karl M. Terrell" 
<kterrell AT stokeswagner.com><mailto:kterrell AT stokeswagner.com>


wrote:

while conservative Christian housewives have their maids ride in the back


seat, in the ?old style? ? ?Liberal housewives make their maids ride on the
front seat?

I have the same passage highlighted in my book.  I wonder, what is the
difference between the verbs "have" and "make"? In either case, none of the
housewives "let" the maids ride where the will.

Interesting also that Tom's women have jobs in the midst of this housewife
dotted paradise he describes.

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 00:26:52 -0500
From: RHONDA MCDONNELL 
<rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com><mailto:rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com>
To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
   <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org><mailto:percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR Slow Read - Chapter 1 - "July Fourth"
Message-ID: 
<BAY407-EAS209A704911FBFE53404370EE4070 AT phx.gbl><BAY407-EAS209A704911FBFE53404370EE4070 AT phx.gbl">mailto:BAY407-EAS209A704911FBFE53404370EE4070 AT phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I read that essay on Sunday, too. It's a fitting companion piece to LITR.

Sent from my iPad



On Jun 30, 2014, at 10:30 AM, "Jim Forest" 
<jhforest AT gmail.com><mailto:jhforest AT gmail.com> wrote:

A brief quote from Walker Percy that sheds a little light about what is is


up to in LITR (and in his fiction as a whole):


"The novelist writes about the coming end in order to warn about present


ills and so avert the end.... [but he] is less like a prophet than he is
like the canary that coal miners used to take down into the shaft to test
the air. When the canary gets unhappy, utters plaintive cries, and
collapses, it may be time for the miners to surface and think things
over..." -- from "Notes for a Novel About the End of the World"


Jim





On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 11:40 PM, RHONDA MCDONNELL


<rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com><mailto:rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com> wrote:


I?d like to start be referring to Lauren?s most recent post. In it she


makes a great point: Percy is calling for ?ALL OF US to look our own
selves.?  In the same post, though, she also seems to urge us to not examine
his work communally.  That, however, is contrary to Percy?s anthropology.
The intersubjectivity of the communal experience is what he was after. So if
we read the novel together, no matter how far apart we may be
geographically, and discuss what in it speaks to us, what we each think he?s
getting at, we can have that affirming moment, where we say, ?Yes, yes, that
is how it is with me, too!?  That co-celebration was Percy?s main goal.


In his essay, ?Notes for a Novel about the End of the World,? Percy


explains the novelists role: ?The wounded man has a better view of the
battle than those still shooting. The novelist is less like a prophet than
he is like the canary that coal miners used to take down into the shaft to
test the air. When the canary gets unhappy, utters plaintive cries, and
collapses, it may be time for the miners to surface and think things over.?


So I turn my thoughts to the opening chapter, partly in light of our


previous discussions:


The novel opens with Tom More above the battle, so to speak, and watching


and waiting, like many of Percy?s protagonists.  Tom More is a beautifully
flawed narrator, and I can?t help but see him in the mold of St. Augustine
who prayed, ?Lord, grant me chastity and continence, but not yet.?  Tom
admits, ?My life is a longing, longings for women, for the Nobel Prize, for
the hot bosky bite of bourbon whiskey, and other great heart-wrenching
longings that have no name.? In fact, he dwells quite a bit on longing in
this novel (and his others).  What is this longing all about?  Is it the
sensual longings he identifies or is more hiding behind it so that women,
bourbon, the Nobel Prize can?t fill it?


Tom is unique in his society, being neither Left nor Knothead. Instead,


he is the odd man out?the true believer who is also a scientist.  He may not
be a ?good? Catholic, yet, as he asserts, he believes. And his belief is not
the watered down belief of Catholicism steeped in scientific humanism. No,
he makes the point that he believes the mystery and miracle of it. Tom
remembers, ?The best of times were after mass on summer evenings when
Samantha and I would walk home in the violet dusk, we having received
Communion and I rejoicing afterwards, caring nought for my fellow Catholics
but only for myself and Samantha and Christ swallowed, remembering what he
promised me for eating him, that I would have life in me . . .?  At his
present time, though, Tom is no longer taking Communion, which leads to the
question: Despite his avowed belief, is Christ in him?  Certainly, God
doesn?t rank particularly high on his priority list, coming after women,
music, science, and whiskey.


On the list, a lot of discussion has been focused on Knotheads vis-a-vis


the Tea Party.  But in this novel, it?s pretty clear that Tom More doesn?t
belong to the liberals any more than he belongs to the conservatives.  I
imagine that overall, the list leans liberal, so the tendency is to focus on
the criticisms of the Knotheads.  But the liberals don?t fare any better in
this novel, not from an objective (above the fighting) perspective.  The
liberal entertainment?Homo Hijinks?is a pretty good prediction of the
direction of contemporary entertainment (e.g., Shades of Gray and the rest
of the mommy porn). And, in truth, everyone in the novel is racist. The
liberals? racism might be more subtle, but it is still present.  Is it
better in its subtlety?


Most folks who have been commenting lately, whether liberal or


conservative, want to claim Percy as being in their camp (if he were still
with us).  I?m not so sure, in either case.  If Percy was anything like his
character, Tom, he was somewhere in the middle, liberal on some issues and
conservative on others.  Perhaps he was more concerned with the individual.
If the sundered selves of modern people could be mended, the rest of it
might sort itself out.


I?ll come to a close, though much more remains to be discussed?what about


all of the dropouts in the swamp? What about Tom being the only doctor that
will treat the dropouts? What about the vines? What about Charley Parker
watching the news?


--Rhonda

"You live in a deranged age, more deranged than usual, because in spite


of great scientific and technological advances, man has not the faintest
idea of who he is or what he is doing."


                                   Walker Percy

* Percy-L Discussion Archives:
https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/

* Manage Your Membership:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l

* Contact the Moderator: percy-l-owner (at) lists.ibiblio.org

* Visit The Walker Percy Project: http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy


--
Jim & Nancy Forest
Kanisstraat 5 / 1811 GJ Alkmaar / The Netherlands

Jim's books: 
www.jimandnancyforest.com/books/<http://www.jimandnancyforest.com/books/> Jim 
& Nancy web site:
www.jimandnancyforest.com<http://www.jimandnancyforest.com/> Photo albums:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimforest/sets/
Photo collections: 
www.flickr.com/photos/jimforest/collections/<http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimforest/collections/>
On Pilgrimage blog: http://jimandnancyonpilgrimage.blogspot.com/
A Tale of Two Kidneys blog: http://ataleof2kidneys.blogspot.com/
In Communion site: www.incommunion.org<http://www.incommunion.org/> 
Forest-Flier Editorial
Services: http://forestflier.com/

* * *
* Percy-L Discussion Archives:
https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/

* Manage Your Membership:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l

* Contact the Moderator: percy-l-owner (at) lists.ibiblio.org

* Visit The Walker Percy Project: http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
<https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/attachments/20140701/0cc72f45/at
tachment-0001.html><https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/attachments/20140701/0cc72f45/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
* Percy-L Discussion Archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/

* Manage Your Membership: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l

* Contact the Moderator: percy-l-owner (at) lists.ibiblio.org

* Visit The Walker Percy Project: http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 14:20:52 +0000
From: "Karl M. Terrell" 
<kterrell AT stokeswagner.com><mailto:kterrell AT stokeswagner.com>
To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
   <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org><mailto:percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR Slow Read - Chapter 1 - "July Fourth"
Message-ID:

<a0b483a3a4044b739655bbb8ed7ade0b AT BN1PR04MB552.namprd04.prod.outlook.com><a0b483a3a4044b739655bbb8ed7ade0b AT BN1PR04MB552.namprd04.prod.outlook.com">mailto:a0b483a3a4044b739655bbb8ed7ade0b AT BN1PR04MB552.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

"Have" is more passive than "make."  A more forceful action (and verb) was
unnecessary.  It was the "old style," backed by unspoken custom.  If the
maid were to violate the rule and drop into the front seat, the conservative
housewife would have frowned uncomfortably.  Some would have been quick to
redirect the maid to the back seat, and would have done so with an icy
sweetness -- "Annie Mae, no; you'll be much more comfortable in the back
seat."

The liberal housewife, therefore, must "make" the maid sit up front with
her.

Such as it was, it in the 'go fetch the maid' days of the Jim Crow world
Percy knew.

-----Original Message-----
From: Percy-L [mailto:percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of RHONDA
MCDONNELL
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 1:26 AM
To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR Slow Read - Chapter 1 - "July Fourth"





On Jun 30, 2014, at 7:31 AM, "Karl M. Terrell" 
<kterrell AT stokeswagner.com><mailto:kterrell AT stokeswagner.com>


wrote:

while conservative Christian housewives have their maids ride in the back


seat, in the ?old style? ? ?Liberal housewives make their maids ride on the
front seat?

I have the same passage highlighted in my book.  I wonder, what is the
difference between the verbs "have" and "make"? In either case, none of the
housewives "let" the maids ride where the will.

Interesting also that Tom's women have jobs in the midst of this housewife
dotted paradise he describes.
* Percy-L Discussion Archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/

* Manage Your Membership: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l

* Contact the Moderator: percy-l-owner (at) lists.ibiblio.org

* Visit The Walker Percy Project: http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy

------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

_______________________________________________
Percy-L mailing list
Percy-L AT lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:Percy-L AT lists.ibiblio.org>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l


------------------------------

End of Percy-L Digest, Vol 108, Issue 2
***************************************

* Percy-L Discussion Archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/

* Manage Your Membership: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l

* Contact the Moderator: percy-l-owner (at) lists.ibiblio.org

* Visit The Walker Percy Project: http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy



* Percy-L Discussion Archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/

* Manage Your Membership: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l

* Contact the Moderator: percy-l-owner (at) lists.ibiblio.org

* Visit The Walker Percy Project: http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy





* Percy-L Discussion Archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/

* Manage Your Membership: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l

* Contact the Moderator: percy-l-owner (at) lists.ibiblio.org

* Visit The Walker Percy Project: http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy