Percy-L: Literary, Religious, Scientific, and Philosophical Discussion of Walker Percy

[RHONDA MCDONNELL <rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com>]

What was interesting for me in the "contradictory Judaism" passage was Tom's 
follow-up: he too gets the same reading . . . And then the lapsometer gets 
tossed! 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 3, 2014, at 8:23 AM, "Charles Cowherd" <charlescowherd AT hotmail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> All, 
>  So excited to be involved in this "Slow Read" and to benefit from the
> group's reading of the book.
> Marked passages for me include the "contradictory Judaism" diagnosis on page
> 54 along with the masterful take on American exceptionalism/ Manifest
> Destiny/ 'City on a Hill' narrative on page 57. 
> Those more than made up for the limitations that I saw in the 1st chapter,
> which included Percy's usage of the interrogative to advance both plot and
> theme.
> Cannot wait for the next section. 
> ` Charles R. Cowherd
> 
> -----Original Message-----
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> Subject: Percy-L Digest, Vol 108, Issue 2
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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: LITR Slow Read - Chapter 1 - "July Fourth" (RHONDA MCDONNELL)
>   2. Re: LITR Slow Read - Chapter 1 - "July Fourth" (RHONDA MCDONNELL)
>   3. Re: LITR Slow Read - Chapter 1 - "July Fourth" (Karl M. Terrell)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 00:25:31 -0500
> From: RHONDA MCDONNELL <rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com>
> To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
>    <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR Slow Read - Chapter 1 - "July Fourth"
> Message-ID: <BAY407-EAS22050015C16891A0B964481E4070 AT phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> 
> 
>>> On Jun 30, 2014, at 7:31 AM, "Karl M. Terrell" <kterrell AT stokeswagner.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> while conservative Christian housewives have their maids ride in the back
> seat, in the ?old style? ? ?Liberal housewives make their maids ride on the
> front seat?
> 
> I have the same passage highlighted in my book.  I wonder, what is the
> difference between the verbs "have" and "make"? In either case, none of the
> housewives "let" the maids ride where the will.  
> 
> Interesting also that Tom's women have jobs in the midst of this housewife
> dotted paradise he describes.
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 00:26:52 -0500
> From: RHONDA MCDONNELL <rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com>
> To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
>    <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR Slow Read - Chapter 1 - "July Fourth"
> Message-ID: <BAY407-EAS209A704911FBFE53404370EE4070 AT phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> I read that essay on Sunday, too. It's a fitting companion piece to LITR.
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Jun 30, 2014, at 10:30 AM, "Jim Forest" <jhforest AT gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> A brief quote from Walker Percy that sheds a little light about what is is
> up to in LITR (and in his fiction as a whole):
>> 
>> "The novelist writes about the coming end in order to warn about present
> ills and so avert the end.... [but he] is less like a prophet than he is
> like the canary that coal miners used to take down into the shaft to test
> the air. When the canary gets unhappy, utters plaintive cries, and
> collapses, it may be time for the miners to surface and think things
> over..." -- from "Notes for a Novel About the End of the World" 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Jim
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 11:40 PM, RHONDA MCDONNELL
> <rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com> wrote:
>>> I?d like to start be referring to Lauren?s most recent post. In it she
> makes a great point: Percy is calling for ?ALL OF US to look our own
> selves.?  In the same post, though, she also seems to urge us to not examine
> his work communally.  That, however, is contrary to Percy?s anthropology.
> The intersubjectivity of the communal experience is what he was after. So if
> we read the novel together, no matter how far apart we may be
> geographically, and discuss what in it speaks to us, what we each think he?s
> getting at, we can have that affirming moment, where we say, ?Yes, yes, that
> is how it is with me, too!?  That co-celebration was Percy?s main goal.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> In his essay, ?Notes for a Novel about the End of the World,? Percy
> explains the novelists role: ?The wounded man has a better view of the
> battle than those still shooting. The novelist is less like a prophet than
> he is like the canary that coal miners used to take down into the shaft to
> test the air. When the canary gets unhappy, utters plaintive cries, and
> collapses, it may be time for the miners to surface and think things over.?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> So I turn my thoughts to the opening chapter, partly in light of our
> previous discussions:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The novel opens with Tom More above the battle, so to speak, and watching
> and waiting, like many of Percy?s protagonists.  Tom More is a beautifully
> flawed narrator, and I can?t help but see him in the mold of St. Augustine
> who prayed, ?Lord, grant me chastity and continence, but not yet.?  Tom
> admits, ?My life is a longing, longings for women, for the Nobel Prize, for
> the hot bosky bite of bourbon whiskey, and other great heart-wrenching
> longings that have no name.? In fact, he dwells quite a bit on longing in
> this novel (and his others).  What is this longing all about?  Is it the
> sensual longings he identifies or is more hiding behind it so that women,
> bourbon, the Nobel Prize can?t fill it?  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Tom is unique in his society, being neither Left nor Knothead. Instead,
> he is the odd man out?the true believer who is also a scientist.  He may not
> be a ?good? Catholic, yet, as he asserts, he believes. And his belief is not
> the watered down belief of Catholicism steeped in scientific humanism. No,
> he makes the point that he believes the mystery and miracle of it. Tom
> remembers, ?The best of times were after mass on summer evenings when
> Samantha and I would walk home in the violet dusk, we having received
> Communion and I rejoicing afterwards, caring nought for my fellow Catholics
> but only for myself and Samantha and Christ swallowed, remembering what he
> promised me for eating him, that I would have life in me . . .?  At his
> present time, though, Tom is no longer taking Communion, which leads to the
> question: Despite his avowed belief, is Christ in him?  Certainly, God
> doesn?t rank particularly high on his priority list, coming after women,
> music, science, and whiskey.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On the list, a lot of discussion has been focused on Knotheads vis-a-vis
> the Tea Party.  But in this novel, it?s pretty clear that Tom More doesn?t
> belong to the liberals any more than he belongs to the conservatives.  I
> imagine that overall, the list leans liberal, so the tendency is to focus on
> the criticisms of the Knotheads.  But the liberals don?t fare any better in
> this novel, not from an objective (above the fighting) perspective.  The
> liberal entertainment?Homo Hijinks?is a pretty good prediction of the
> direction of contemporary entertainment (e.g., Shades of Gray and the rest
> of the mommy porn). And, in truth, everyone in the novel is racist. The
> liberals? racism might be more subtle, but it is still present.  Is it
> better in its subtlety? 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Most folks who have been commenting lately, whether liberal or
> conservative, want to claim Percy as being in their camp (if he were still
> with us).  I?m not so sure, in either case.  If Percy was anything like his
> character, Tom, he was somewhere in the middle, liberal on some issues and
> conservative on others.  Perhaps he was more concerned with the individual.
> If the sundered selves of modern people could be mended, the rest of it
> might sort itself out. 
>>> 
>>> I?ll come to a close, though much more remains to be discussed?what about
> all of the dropouts in the swamp? What about Tom being the only doctor that
> will treat the dropouts? What about the vines? What about Charley Parker
> watching the news?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --Rhonda
>>> 
>>> "You live in a deranged age, more deranged than usual, because in spite
> of great scientific and technological advances, man has not the faintest
> idea of who he is or what he is doing."
>>> 
>>>                                    Walker Percy
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Jim & Nancy Forest
>> Kanisstraat 5 / 1811 GJ Alkmaar / The Netherlands
>> 
>> Jim's books: www.jimandnancyforest.com/books/ Jim & Nancy web site: 
>> www.jimandnancyforest.com Photo albums: 
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimforest/sets/
>> Photo collections: www.flickr.com/photos/jimforest/collections/
>> On Pilgrimage blog: http://jimandnancyonpilgrimage.blogspot.com/
>> A Tale of Two Kidneys blog: http://ataleof2kidneys.blogspot.com/
>> In Communion site: www.incommunion.org Forest-Flier Editorial 
>> Services: http://forestflier.com/
>> 
>> * * *
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 14:20:52 +0000
> From: "Karl M. Terrell" <kterrell AT stokeswagner.com>
> To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
>    <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR Slow Read - Chapter 1 - "July Fourth"
> Message-ID:
>    
> <a0b483a3a4044b739655bbb8ed7ade0b AT BN1PR04MB552.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
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> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> "Have" is more passive than "make."  A more forceful action (and verb) was
> unnecessary.  It was the "old style," backed by unspoken custom.  If the
> maid were to violate the rule and drop into the front seat, the conservative
> housewife would have frowned uncomfortably.  Some would have been quick to
> redirect the maid to the back seat, and would have done so with an icy
> sweetness -- "Annie Mae, no; you'll be much more comfortable in the back
> seat."
> 
> The liberal housewife, therefore, must "make" the maid sit up front with
> her.
> 
> Such as it was, it in the 'go fetch the maid' days of the Jim Crow world
> Percy knew.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Percy-L [mailto:percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of RHONDA
> MCDONNELL
> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 1:26 AM
> To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
> Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR Slow Read - Chapter 1 - "July Fourth"
> 
> 
> 
>>> On Jun 30, 2014, at 7:31 AM, "Karl M. Terrell" <kterrell AT stokeswagner.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> while conservative Christian housewives have their maids ride in the back
> seat, in the ?old style? ? ?Liberal housewives make their maids ride on the
> front seat?
> 
> I have the same passage highlighted in my book.  I wonder, what is the
> difference between the verbs "have" and "make"? In either case, none of the
> housewives "let" the maids ride where the will.  
> 
> Interesting also that Tom's women have jobs in the midst of this housewife
> dotted paradise he describes.
> * Percy-L Discussion Archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/
> 
> * Manage Your Membership: http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l
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> 
> * Visit The Walker Percy Project: http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
> 
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