Percy-L: Literary, Religious, Scientific, and Philosophical Discussion of Walker Percy

[<robert.g.eckert AT us.army.mil>]

The conflict between language being an "evolutionary breakthrough" or a 
"design feature" is a false one. 

Language is a feature that was created as all other features were created. 

The process of creation is the process of natural selection. 

Evolutionary chance is the process by which we were created by the Creator.

Chance is God unrecognized.

Spc Robert Eckert
172 Chemical Corp
Ft. Riley, KS  66442

"Faith requires us to be materialists without flinching"
    - Peirce


----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Larson 
Date: Tuesday, May 8, 2007 9:46
Subject: [percy-l] Language is a clue
To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org

> Dear John, Robert, and others,
> 
> This is from "The Mystery of Language," THE MESSAGE IN THE BOTTLE (p.
> 158):
> 
> "An awareness of the nature of language must have the greatest 
> possibleconsequences for our minimal concept of man. For one thing 
> it must
> reveal the ordinary secular concept of man held in the West as not
> merely inadequate but quite simply mistaken. I do not refer to the
> Christian idea of man as a composite of body and soul, a belief 
> which is
> professed by some and given lip service by many but which can 
> hardly be
> said to be a working assumption of secular learning. We see man--
> when I
> say we, I mean 95 per cent of those who attended American high schools
> and universities--as the highest of the organisms: He stands 
> erect, he
> apposes thumb and forefinger, his language is far more complex 
> than that
> of the most advanced Cebus azarae. But the difference is quantitative,
> not qualitative. Man is a higher organism, standing in direct 
> continuitywith rocks, soil, fungi, protozoa, and mammals.
> 
> This happens not to be true, however, and in a way it is 
> unfortunate. I
> say unfortunate because it means the shattering of the old dream 
> of the
> Enlightenment--that an objective-explanatory-causal science can 
> discoverand set forth all the knowledge of which man is capable. 
> The dream is
> drawing to a close. The existentialists have taught us that what 
> man is
> cannot be grasped by the sciences of man. The case is rather that 
> man'sscience is one of the things that man does, a mode of 
> existence. Another
> mode is speech. Man is not merely a higher organism responding to and
> controlling his environment. He is, in Heidegger's words, that 
> being in
> the world whose calling it is to find a name for Being, to give
> testimony to it, and to provide for it a clearing."
> 
> 
> So Percy argues here, as he does in many places, that the human 
> capacityfor language is what separates us from the animals. The 
> Christianphilosophers, to whose work he makes implicit reference 
> here, would say
> that the animals are of an entirely material (thus, dyadic) order and
> that God and the angels are of an entirely spiritual (non-material)
> order. But man is a middle creature, both material and spiritual (the
> highest of the former and the lowest of the latter), and the triadic
> nature of language is both a material clue for this reality and the
> means by which this composite creature (man) has access to that 
> which is
> higher. Language itself is always material--whether written or
> spoken--but it allows by way of signification for consciousness and
> contemplation, which is of the spiritual order. And by a mere 
> sleight of
> words, Percy gets an existentialist, Heidegger, to describe in grand
> terms, what Aquinas had fulfilled centuries earlier, in the high 
> MiddleAges, long before "the old dream of the Enlightenment" was 
> even born.
> 
> Which is all to say that language is not likely to be some 
> evolutionarybreakthrough but rather a design feature in a unique 
> creature, a
> creature whose nature must accommodate two realms: those of both 
> matterand spirit. Language, for Percy, was a clue and ultimately a 
> proof for
> the spiritual order; and because it is rooted in the material 
> world, I
> think he thought he had something that even the rationalist-naturalist
> intelligentsia would have to acknowledge.
> 
> Best regards,
> Michael Larson
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of
> percy-l-request AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 11:00 AM
> To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Percy-L Digest, Vol 48, Issue 4
> 
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> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
> 1. Re: The Naked Ape's Triadic Threshold
> (robert.g.eckert AT us.army.mil)
> 2. Re: The Naked Ape's Triadic Threshold (John Harvey)
> 3. Resistance is Futile, The Machine is Us/ing Us (John Harvey)
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 18:42:48 -0600
> From: 
> Subject: Re: [percy-l] The Naked Ape's Triadic Threshold
> To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
> 
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John Harvey asks:
> 
> > How does Percy explicitly suggest that symbol use is related to 
> > "the 
> > triadic threshold?" Or, are there secondary sources for this 
> > connection? In either case, I would appreciate knowing where I 
> can 
> > get more information on these ideas.
> > 
> 
> I'm going on memory here-- I'm pretty sure "A Semiotic Primer of the
> Self" speaks to this connection. 
> 
> The origin of symbol use is identical to the crossing of the triadic
> threshold. At some point our brain evolved the ability to 
> synthesize the
> triadic relation between signifier and signified, linguistic signs and
> their referents. At that point we evolved a new mode of being.
> 
> I tried dealing with this subject in "Walker Percy and the Mind/Body
> Problem' June 1999 International Philosophical Quarterly. [shameless
> self-promotion] Pretty naive writing on subjects I didn't really
> understand.
> 
> I know Percy deals with the subject in essays in The Message in the
> Bottle also.
> 
> This triadic threshold question is THE question. I have to think that
> understanding where we come from will help us know where we are going.
> 
> Spc Robert Eckert
> 172 Chemical Corp
> Ft. Riley, Kansas 66442 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 07:10:17 -0500
> From: John Harvey 
> Subject: Re: [percy-l] The Naked Ape's Triadic Threshold
> To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
> 
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Robert Eckert, List
> 
> At 06:42 PM 5/5/2007 -0600, Spc Robert Eckert wrote:
> 
> >I'm going on memory here-- I'm pretty sure "A Semiotic Primer of 
> the 
> >Self" speaks to this connection [between symbol use and triadic
> threshold].
> 
> A quick Google search revealed that this essay is included in Lost 
> in 
> the Cosmos which I just ordered so I could participate in the 
> seminar/discussion at www.korrekiv.org.
> 
> > The origin of symbol use is identical to the crossing of the 
> > triadic threshold. At some point our brain evolved the ability 
> to 
> > synthesize the triadic relation between signifier and signified, 
> > linguistic signs and their referents. At that point we evolved a 
> > new mode of being.
> >
> >I tried dealing with this subject in "Walker Percy and the 
> Mind/Body 
> >Problem' June 1999 International Philosophical Quarterly. 
> >[shameless self-promotion] Pretty naive writing on subjects I 
> didn't 
> >really understand.
> >
> >I know Percy deals with the subject in essays in The Message in 
> the 
> >Bottle also.
> >
> >This triadic threshold question is THE question. I have to think 
> >that understanding where we come from will help us know where we are
> going.
> 
> Although I agree with your sentiments, I would put greater 
> emphasis 
> on our future. I believe that THE question is learning how to 
> build 
> secure bridges across Percy's Fateful Rift. Of course, 
> understanding 
> the triadic threshold is necessary for interpreting this rift 
> properly and building secure bridges on a firm foundation. That is 
> the reason I am trying to get a handle on your comments.
> 
> Thanks for your suggestions. I am just beginning to retrain my 
> dyadic 
> eyes to see the triadic forest through what appear to be dyadic trees.
> 
> Respectfully,
> 
> John 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 08:39:17 -0500
> From: John Harvey 
> Subject: [percy-l] Resistance is Futile, The Machine is Us/ing Us
> To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
> 
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> List,
> 
> As I've said many times, "I'm a perennial optimist in the face of 
> overwhelming evidence to the contrary."
> 
> However, I also believe that we optimists need to attract as much 
> attention to evidence of the problem as we can muster to convince 
> those in doubt. Hopefully, when the evidence is more widely 
> understood, it will convince a few more that we need to build 
> secure 
> bridges across the Peircean triadic/dyadic divide which Percy 
> called 
> A Fateful Rift.
> 
> At the risk of preaching to the choir, I am directing your 
> attention 
> to this posting Resistance is Futile 
> I 
> believe it is a sign that concern is alive and growing.
> 
> BTW www.korrektiv.org is the blog that is currently hosting the 
> seminar/discussion about Percy's Lost in the Cosmos: The Last Self-
> HelpBook.
> 
> I am also recommending these signposts to some of my unknowing or 
> doubting friends who need to be nudged.
> 
> Respectfully,
> 
> John 
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