Percy-L: Literary, Religious, Scientific, and Philosophical Discussion of Walker Percy

["Michael Larson" <Mlarson AT SOUTHEASTMN.EDU>]

Dear John, Robert, and others,

This is from "The Mystery of Language," THE MESSAGE IN THE BOTTLE (p.
158):

"An awareness of the nature of language must have the greatest possible
consequences for our minimal concept of man. For one thing it must
reveal the ordinary secular concept of man held in the West as not
merely inadequate but quite simply mistaken. I do not refer to the
Christian idea of man as a composite of body and soul, a belief which is
professed by some and given lip service by many but which can hardly be
said to be a working assumption of secular learning. We see man--when I
say we, I mean 95 per cent of those who attended American high schools
and universities--as the highest of the organisms: He stands erect, he
apposes thumb and forefinger, his language is far more complex than that
of the most advanced Cebus azarae. But the difference is quantitative,
not qualitative. Man is a higher organism, standing in direct continuity
with rocks, soil, fungi, protozoa, and mammals.

This happens not to be true, however, and in a way it is unfortunate. I
say unfortunate because it means the shattering of the old dream of the
Enlightenment--that an objective-explanatory-causal science can discover
and set forth all the knowledge of which man is capable. The dream is
drawing to a close. The existentialists have taught us that what man is
cannot be grasped by the sciences of man. The case is rather that man's
science is one of the things that man does, a mode of existence. Another
mode is speech. Man is not merely a higher organism responding to and
controlling his environment. He is, in Heidegger's words, that being in
the world whose calling it is to find a name for Being, to give
testimony to it, and to provide for it a clearing."


So Percy argues here, as he does in many places, that the human capacity
for language is what separates us from the animals. The Christian
philosophers, to whose work he makes implicit reference here, would say
that the animals are of an entirely material (thus, dyadic) order and
that God and the angels are of an entirely spiritual (non-material)
order. But man is a middle creature, both material and spiritual (the
highest of the former and the lowest of the latter), and the triadic
nature of language is both a material clue for this reality and the
means by which this composite creature (man) has access to that which is
higher. Language itself is always material--whether written or
spoken--but it allows by way of signification for consciousness and
contemplation, which is of the spiritual order. And by a mere sleight of
words, Percy gets an existentialist, Heidegger, to describe in grand
terms, what Aquinas had fulfilled centuries earlier, in the high Middle
Ages, long before "the old dream of the Enlightenment" was even born.

Which is all to say that language is not likely to be some evolutionary
breakthrough but rather a design feature in a unique creature, a
creature whose nature must accommodate two realms: those of both matter
and spirit. Language, for Percy, was a clue and ultimately a proof for
the spiritual order; and because it is rooted in the material world, I
think he thought he had something that even the rationalist-naturalist
intelligentsia would have to acknowledge.

Best regards,
Michael Larson




-----Original Message-----
From: percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of
percy-l-request AT lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 11:00 AM
To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Percy-L Digest, Vol 48, Issue 4

Send Percy-L mailing list submissions to
        percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
        http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
        percy-l-request AT lists.ibiblio.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
        percy-l-owner AT lists.ibiblio.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Percy-L digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: The Naked Ape's Triadic Threshold
      (robert.g.eckert AT us.army.mil)
   2. Re: The Naked Ape's Triadic Threshold (John Harvey)
   3. Resistance is Futile, The Machine is Us/ing Us (John Harvey)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 18:42:48 -0600
From: <robert.g.eckert AT us.army.mil>
Subject: Re: [percy-l] The Naked Ape's Triadic Threshold
To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
        <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <e4bebacbbc66.463cd028 AT us.army.mil>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii






John Harvey asks:

> How does Percy explicitly suggest that symbol use is related to 
> "the 
> triadic threshold?" Or, are there secondary sources for this 
> connection? In either case, I would appreciate knowing where I can 
> get more information on these ideas.
> 

I'm going on memory here-- I'm pretty sure "A Semiotic Primer of the
Self" speaks to this connection. 

The origin of symbol use is identical to the crossing of the triadic
threshold. At some point our brain evolved the ability to synthesize the
triadic relation between signifier and signified, linguistic signs and
their referents. At that point we evolved a new mode of being.

I tried dealing with this subject in "Walker Percy and the Mind/Body
Problem'  June 1999 International Philosophical Quarterly. [shameless
self-promotion] Pretty naive writing on subjects I didn't really
understand.

I know Percy deals with the subject in essays in The Message in the
Bottle also.

This triadic threshold question is THE question. I have to think that
understanding where we come from will help us know where we are going.

Spc Robert Eckert
172 Chemical Corp
Ft. Riley, Kansas 66442 


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 07:10:17 -0500
From: John Harvey <johnharvey AT earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [percy-l] The Naked Ape's Triadic Threshold
To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
        <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <E1HkfZC-0004Uu-00 AT pop-savannah.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Robert Eckert, List

At 06:42 PM 5/5/2007 -0600, Spc Robert Eckert wrote:

>I'm going on memory here-- I'm pretty sure "A Semiotic Primer of the 
>Self" speaks to this connection [between symbol use and triadic
threshold].

A quick Google search revealed that this essay is included in Lost in 
the Cosmos which I just ordered so I could participate in the 
seminar/discussion at www.korrekiv.org.

>  The origin of symbol use is identical to the crossing of the 
> triadic threshold. At some point our brain evolved the ability to 
> synthesize the triadic relation between signifier and signified, 
> linguistic signs and their referents. At that point we evolved a 
> new mode of being.
>
>I tried dealing with this subject in "Walker Percy and the Mind/Body 
>Problem'  June 1999 International Philosophical Quarterly. 
>[shameless self-promotion] Pretty naive writing on subjects I didn't 
>really understand.
>
>I know Percy deals with the subject in essays in The Message in the 
>Bottle also.
>
>This triadic threshold question is THE question. I have to think 
>that understanding where we come from will help us know where we are
going.

Although I agree with your sentiments, I would put greater emphasis 
on our future. I believe that THE question is learning how to build 
secure bridges across Percy's Fateful Rift. Of course, understanding 
the triadic threshold is necessary for interpreting this rift 
properly and building secure bridges on a firm foundation. That is 
the reason I am trying to get a handle on your comments.

Thanks for your suggestions. I am just beginning to retrain my dyadic 
eyes to see the triadic forest through what appear to be dyadic trees.

Respectfully,

John 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/attachments/20070506/3502d283
/attachment-0001.htm 

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 08:39:17 -0500
From: John Harvey <johnharvey AT earthlink.net>
Subject: [percy-l] Resistance is Futile, The Machine is Us/ing Us
To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
        <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <E1HkgxI-0005Fv-00 AT pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

List,

As I've said many times, "I'm a perennial optimist in the face of 
overwhelming evidence to the contrary."

However, I also believe that we optimists need to attract as much 
attention to evidence of the problem as we can muster to convince 
those in doubt. Hopefully, when the evidence is more widely 
understood, it will convince a few more that we need to build secure 
bridges across the Peircean triadic/dyadic divide which Percy called 
A Fateful Rift.

At the risk of preaching to the choir, I am directing your attention 
to this posting Resistance is Futile 
<http://www.korrektiv.org/2007/05/resistance-is-futile.html> I 
believe it is a sign that concern is alive and growing.

BTW www.korrektiv.org is the blog that is currently hosting the 
seminar/discussion about Percy's Lost in the Cosmos: The Last Self-Help
Book.

I am also recommending these signposts to some of my unknowing or 
doubting friends who need to be nudged.

Respectfully,

John  
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/attachments/20070506/547dfae8
/attachment-0001.htm 

------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Percy-L mailing list
Percy-L AT lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l


End of Percy-L Digest, Vol 48, Issue 4
**************************************