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Subject: Percy-L: Literary, Religious, Scientific, and Philosophical Discussion on Walker Percy

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  • From: "Dye, Steve" <sldye AT bluegrass.org>
  • To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 44, Issue 4
  • Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 06:37:40 -0500

Speaking of 'end of the world" scenarios in Percy, has anyone seen "Children
of Men'???

________________________________

From: percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of Michael Larson
Sent: Fri 1/5/2007 11:01 PM
To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: RE: Percy-L Digest, Vol 44, Issue 4



Rhonda wrote: "If Percy is right and the 20th century was
the century of death and its inhabitants were, in his words, death-dealing
and death-loving, what does this 21st century bring?"

Another theme of Percy is the end of the world, picked up most
directly--though in a comic way--in Love in the Ruins, where he postulates
that the end is in the not-too-distant future. If he is right, then we might
expect a good deal more death ahead than the 20th century brought us. Nothing
that prompted the infamous label, the Culture of Death, has changed much
since the last century, yet there is plenty room for an intensification of
this propensity. Simultaneously, of course, we might expect much clamouring
for peace. A true version of it, however, might be difficult to find.

Rhonda wrote: "If we agree with Michael, that LANCELOT speaks, in part, for
Walker (I'm willing to entertain the notion), then can we see the Percy
protagonists in a continuum of sorts? If so, Lance is a purgative character."

Interesting. He's serving time, it's true. And at the end, there is the
glimmer of a notion that he might even be released from the dark place he has
been.

I'm not sure about a continuum, but I can see pairs: Binx and Tom are amused
and amusing. Will and Lance are serious and troubled, disoriented and
wounded. Will, I think, is the most admirable of the four, the most equipped
in the end to ascend.

Regards,
Michael Larson

PS: And yes, Rhonda, this post was perfectly readable!






-----Original Message-----
From: percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of
percy-l-request AT lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Fri 1/5/2007 11:00 AM
To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Percy-L Digest, Vol 44, Issue 4

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Percy-L Digest, Vol 44, Issue 1 (RHONDA MCDONNELL)
2. Lancelot (Michael Larson)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 10:34:08 -0700
From: "RHONDA MCDONNELL" <rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com>
Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 44, Issue 1
To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <BAY116-F14F7FAED01A16F050C7F99E4B80 AT phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Rich wrote:
>How can one be against the world without wishing to be a terrorist--maybe
>just for one day?

I wonder if that feeling (which I understand and sometimes share) is part
and parcel of our current state. If Percy is right and the 20th century was
the century of death and its inhabitants were, in his words, death-dealing
and death-loving, what does this 21st century bring?

This conversation has me thinking of LANCELOT within the chronology of
Percy's work. If we agree with Michael, that LANCELOT speaks, in part, for
Walker (I'm willing to entertain the notion), then can we see the Percy
protagonists in a continuum of sorts? If so, Lance is a purgative character.
In the novel that follows, THE SECOND COMING, Will is able to pitch the
death urge over a cliff and to build a community rather than destroy one (at
least, that's his plan).

p.s. Michael, is this more readable??

--Rhonda

"I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing
than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance"

e.e. cummings

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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 23:03:20 -0600
From: "Michael Larson" <Mlarson AT SOUTHEASTMN.EDU>
Subject: [percy-l] Lancelot
To: <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
<3920C4B0B41025479F39D775289D7AA03F6FED AT wa-SEex.Southeasttech.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Rich wrote: "With Lance Lamar in Lancelot speaking for frustrated, worried
Catholics or even a Protestant like me, does that mean a ranting dreamer of
judgement crouches in us too?"

There are, perhaps, both bad and good reasons to love justice--if justice is
in fact what you mean by judgement. The desire to see others suffer
punishment for their wrongs is suspect at best (and sadistic at worst). But
true charity--that is, a deep and abiding love of God--would also produce a
love of justice, not borne out of a deluded self-righteousness but out of
sorrow and palpable suffering for the injuries endured by God himself, most
tangibly in the passion of the Christ. This love of justice springs not out
of a hatred toward offenders but out of an attachment to the one who is
offended.

Rich also wrote: "How can one be against the world without wishing to be a
terrorist--maybe just for one day?"

And maybe this is where Lance and Percy part ways. They both see what's
wrong; they are both against the world. But Lance reacts with despair and
assumes justice for himself, while Percy reacts with faith--feeling perhaps
simultaneous sorrow--but leaves justice, both for the world and for himself,
entirely in God's hands. Ultimately, this is the only sane response among
those who perceive--often all too keenly--their own countless failings.

Best regards,
Michael Larson



-----Original Message-----
From: percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of
percy-l-request AT lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Thu 1/4/2007 11:00 AM
To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Percy-L Digest, Vol 44, Issue 3

Send Percy-L mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Percy-L Digest, Vol 44, Issue 1 (Gray, Rich)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 17:13:43 -0500
From: "Gray, Rich" <RGray AT montreat.edu>
Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 44, Issue 1
To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
<percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
<CAC5B33076E9264A9E79A4F6145C23FA05267DFC AT e2kmail.montreat.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Michael wrote:
Lance speaks for Will Percy and the loss of southern stoicism. But he also
speaks for Walker.

With Lance Lamar in Lancelot speaking for frustrated, worried Catholics or
even a Protestant like me, does that mean a ranting dreamer of judgement
crouches in us too? When decadence rubs against me, I often ask myself,
"Will God's anger crash down now?"


Then I think "I'm among the righteous remnant. The world may say 'I've got
no strings to hold me down,' yet I'm listening to Jiminy Cricket. My
conscience will be my guide."


How can one be against the world without wishing to be a terrorist--maybe
just for one day?

Rich Gray

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Larson
Sent: Tue 1/2/2007 10:59 PM



I don't know about anyone else on the list, but Rhonda's posts did
some funky formatting on my computer, such that I could not read them in
email. Once I copied and pasted into a Word document, though, I saw that she
had some great things to say. I think it is correct that Lance speaks for
Will Percy and the loss of southern stoicism. But he also speaks for Walker.
In fact, the changes in the Church are not unlike the changes in the social
order. The changes in both are, in many ways, the kindred products of
modernity. Lance affords Percy an opportunity to speak (yes, in an amped-up
fashion) for both Will and Walker, each bemoaning the loss of something he
perceives to be of the utmost importance.

It seems to me that Lance, as a fictional character, might have been
the only way that Percy could express such anxiety. He certainly wasn't about
to go public straight-up with a disillusioned characterization of the Church.
So he did it in fiction, and Lancelot isn't the only place, though it is
perhaps the edgiest. As Rhonda says, Percy did not despair ultimately: he
hoped; but that hope was in spite of a world gone mad and a church gone
soft--not BECAUSE of either one of them.

As far as the jihadists go, yes, they are believers. And yes, there
are Catholic believers and Protestant believers, and many other kinds of
believers, but it is only the trait of belief that binds each to each. It is
not the content of their belief. They do not believe in the same things. Of
course there is overlap, but there are mutually exclusive differences as
well. Unless religious relativism is true, they simply cannot all be correct.
So in being willing at the end of the novel to listen to Fr. John, Lance
teaches us a lesson ONLY if Fr. John's version of the truth is the Truth.
Clearly this is what Percy is intimating. If the Catholic truth that Fr. John
represents is replacable by any (fill in the blank) serious-minded religious
figure, then Percy is handing us nothing but relativism. Which he isn't.

As Rhonda says, Percy does indeed speak through Fr. John. That's the
beauty of fiction: authorial voice may enter any number of characters at
strategic moments, even those (the priest and Lance) who represent ambivalent
and dichotomous grapplings with the same reality (the Church).


Regarding Rhonda's other post--a "bad peace" might be one that is
based on egalitarianism, indifference, apathy, rather than on truth, true
charity, and an acclimation to the real reality (i.e. God's).

Regards,
Michael Larson

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