Percy-L: Literary, Religious, Scientific, and Philosophical Discussion of Walker Percy

["Tommy Armstrong" <tfa AT brickengraver.com>]

I too want to say to Mr. Rivas-Pita that although I may strongly disagree
with your world view that I am actually glad he posted such an inflamatory
remark, as it has seemed to jog the list out of the doldrums. Many of the
questions that R. Pauley pose are real fodder for discussion. I for one
would think that WP would not dismiss GB as a total idiot--and he has really
dealt with the Pat Robertsons of the world in more than one of his works. I
am not so sure the inhabitants of Alpha Centauri would have let any of the
posters on this subject onto their planet if they had read what we have
posted. I think they would have sent us back to earth. (I will reread LITC
tomorrow and correct this last statement).

Politics has or rather is a way of grouping people, and one thing that I
know for certain is that WP believed in not being grouped--except perhaps by
Catholicism, whether by some pseudo-science such as sociology or psychology
or by "political science" (an abosolute oxymoron). Discussion between
individuals who have voluntarily subjugated themselves to group think leads
to no good--usually genocide or some other atrocity. That is where WP would
have probably weighed in. 

Its Friday night, I have had a hard week protecting the fish and the
environment form lethal human waste (I run a sewer plant), so I think I will
have an Early Times, sit on my front porch, and read a bit of Percy.

Tommy Armstrong
PO Box 484 
Lillington, NC   27546
www.brickengraver.com
 
The search is what anyone would undertake if he were not sunk in the
everydayness of his own life. To become aware of the possibility of the
search is to be onto something. Not to be onto something is to be in
despair. 
 
Walker Percy





   

-----Original Message-----
From: percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of
Robert_Pauley AT oxy.com
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 7:09 PM
To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [percy-l] (no subject)

Mr. Rivas-Pita: My admonition against regulation was just that: a call for
free expression. I am not interested in silencing you or seeing that you are
inhibited by other members. That is the moderator's prerogative, as I
thought I indicated. I am not "fed up" with you or your points of view, as
you seem to be of others. I'm here to say what I think and listen to others
as they do the same, until I'm not. 

I'm also not interested in Pat Robertson. He doesn't speak for me or for the
United States. I'm sure we can rake up some addle-pated "man of the cloth"
in Venezuela who calls for the assassination of George Bush. So what?

You may be as explicit as you wish, Mr. Rivas-Pita, according to your own
style and your readings of my limitations.

I did give some thought last night to Walker Percy and how he might have
responded to some of these issues and the passions around them, including
terrorism, nationalism, anti-Semitism and suchlike. I keep trying to imagine
what a letter or essay of his to the NY Times editorial page, along the
lines of his famous letter on abortion, might have sounded like. Dr. Percy
was certainly not a polemicist. His style was restrained, incisive and
ironic. But would the heat of this issue have moved him into a different
pitch? Would he have aimed withering fire at George Bush, call him out as
the dangerous dolt and self-righteous closet martinet so many in the
literary and celebrity world now are doing? How would he have addressed
notions of good and evil, the conflict between the West and Islamicism? I
also wonder if it is possible that he would have not found his voice on the
issue at all, would simply have chosen to keep his head down, like the bug
in the crack of the sidewalk. Maybe people live in one time and not another
for good reason. Mostly questions still. 

Cordially, R. Pauley,  

-----Original Message-----
From: percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of J Rivas-Pita
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 3:54 AM
To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
Subject: Re: [percy-l] (no subject)


Mr. Pauley, please kindly refer to the links I previously provided to
stories by AP, CNN and The Guardian, and to my first post IN CONTEXT.
(Remember Pat Robertson's inflammatory appeals to assassinate Venezuela's
President, since Venezuela is "in our sphere of
influence"?)
You accuse me of  "bullying and censorial indignation". My dear Mr.
Pauley, have you ever heard of the term "projection", employed in
psychoanalysis? I'm not the one who wrote:

"I'm not sure it is necessary to try to regulate the discussion.
That's what moderators are for."

(?????)

Do I need, my dear Mr. Pauley, have to be more explicit, or do you
understand it the way I've just shown?

Kindest regards,

Julio Rivas-Pita

On 8/26/05, Robert_Pauley AT oxy.com <Robert_Pauley AT oxy.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure it is necessary to try to regulate the discussion. That's
what moderators are for.
> 
> You did begin this un-Percy like discussion, Mr. Rivas-Pita, and in a
rather pugnacious manner, and seem to wish to continue it so. Fine. But in
my view, Mr. Beck's summary of your introduction is not "grossly"
inaccurate. For, after all, comparisons, allusions, coy nods, to Hitler, are
as silly as they are inflammatory. You must have known at least the latter.
How did you think people would respond to the suggestion, nay assertion,
their country was the largest terrorist state, etc.. And, if you please, how
is this inquiry you enjoin to be conducted "in a Percy vein"? And exactly
how does one respond in such a "vein," other than to say, as Percy might
have said, that it is morally cattywhompers? I think the responses have been
extraordinarily civil. I should have responded more forcefully at the time.
Mr. Rivas-Pita, you don't know what you're talking about, and you're doing
so in a way to invite rebuke.
> 
> As to McCarthyism, I'm quite familiar with it. It is very much alive
today, and takes many forms. One of these forms is the sort of bullying and
censorial indignation of "being fed up" with certain positions inimical to
one's own, and the related attempt to stifle them.
> 
> But I did get a laugh from your remark about the "Jewish-controlled"
media. You haven't been here recently, have you?
> 
> Cordially, R. Pauley
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org 
> [mailto:percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of J Rivas-Pita
> Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 8:50 PM
> To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
> Subject: Re: [percy-l] (no subject)
> 
> 
> I also have an idea -about what you stand for, for instance.
> 
> To grossly misquote me like this:
> 
> " It started off with something like "through a percean view, how do 
> you Americans feel about having a leader who is comparable to Hitler" 
> (a remark that should be offensive to all Jews and thinking people who 
> know history). What do those remarks REALLY have to do with Percy, 
> other than the desire to spew out one's agenda under the mask of the 
> remarks being "percean"?"
> 
> Those interested enough are quite welcomed to go back in the thread 
> and read my post.
> 
> To misquote another list-member, and to misquote him OUT OF CONTEXT 
> seems to me plainly dishonest, both morally and intelectually. Which 
> confirms my suspicions about your own hidden agenda, masked as 
> "fastidiousness".
> 
> As to the remark about "all Jews and thinking people who know 
> history", I must say I'm COMPLETELY FED UP MYSELF with the 
> manipulative portraying of Jews as -seemingly- the only victims of 
> violence and hatred on this planet, to the total exclusion of the 
> about 50 MILLION DEAD in WWII who WERE NOT JEWISH, not to mention the 
> fact that later on it was Jews who violently persecuted, discriminated 
> and robbed of their land Palestinians, sending them into refugee camps 
> -something that the Jewish-controlled media in the U.S.A. do not much 
> care to show.
> 
> And PLEASE do not come now saying that these remarks are offensive or 
> that I must be a Communist or something to the effect -if you have 
> some intellectual and moral integrity, do respond to my arguments and 
> do not resort to the fascist-style practice of calling me names (à la 
> Joe McCarthy, if you happen to know who he was -it depends on how old 
> you are or how much you know about XXth century American politics).
> 
> 
> 
> On 8/25/05, dabeck AT iupui.edu <dabeck AT iupui.edu> wrote:
> >
> > I have an idea. I see that some have attempted some marvelous 
> > contortions, in order to relate this discussion to Percy. It's easy 
> > to say, I think Percy would relate to XXX. But the fact is, he isn't
here to throw in his opinions.
> > One thing that stands out about Percy is that a) he wrote much of 
> > his work during some of the most volatile years of recent history; 
> > and b)he seemed to shy away from making a dogmatic stand on 
> > political issues of the day. Some have recommended Love in the 
> > Ruins. I agree. The book shows how divided our country can and has 
> > become. But, at the same time, the book never shows us a particular 
> > side we should support (in a Bakhtinian way), left or right. Percy 
> > shows the weaknesses of both. In fact, he points out the myopic view
that dogmatic ideologies are prone to.
> >  I don't know. But anytime I hear someone arguing vehemently for one 
> > side or the other, I cast a suspicious eye toward him/her. I really 
> > don't think that either position is that black and white.
> >  For me, that's the big Percean point: He never sided with the far 
> > right or the far left (or the middle, for that matter). Perhaps a 
> > better discussion for this listserv is how to relate Percy's thought 
> > to the polarization that is taking place in the U.S.
> >  If not, please do me a favor and carry on the discussion off-list. 
> > All I'm reading is the same tired rhetoric that I (unfortunately) 
> > have to hear every time I turn on the TV and listen to the talking 
> > heads of the left and the right. Nothing new is being said, and all 
> > of us are to comfortable in our self- righteous beliefs to really hear
the other.
> >  I invite us all to drop our agenda and return to what this list does
best:
> > analyze the works of Percy and how they relate to our everyday 
> > lives. The original posting that started this discussion was 
> > inappropriate. It had nothing to do with Percy. It started off with 
> > something like "through a percean view, how do you Americans feel 
> > about having a leader who is comparable to Hitler" (a remark that 
> > should be offensive to all Jews and thinking people who know 
> > history). What do those remarks REALLY have to do with Percy, other 
> > than the desire to spew out one's agenda under the mask of the remarks
being "percean"?
> >  I suggest (PLEASE) take the discussion off list. I'm tired of 
> > reading the same old rhetoric that I hear everyday on the news. 
> > Let's get back to what this list is for: discussing Percy's 
> > philosophy and how we relate it to our everyday lives. Other 
> > listserves exist that welcome one's political agenda, but I'm hoping
this one won't turn out like the others.
> > -David
> > --
> > An archive of all list discussion is available at 
> > https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/
> >
> > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
> >
> 
> 
> --
> Be Happy! (Fr. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) Sé feliz! (P. 
> Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996)
> --
> An archive of all list discussion is available at 
> https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/
> 
> Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
> --
> An archive of all list discussion is available at 
> https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/
> 
> Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
> 


--
Be Happy! (Fr. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996) Sé feliz! (P. Benito
Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996)
--
An archive of all list discussion is available at
https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/

Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
--
An archive of all list discussion is available at
https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/

Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy