Percy-L: Literary, Religious, Scientific, and Philosophical Discussion of Walker Percy

[<Robert_Pauley AT oxy.com>]

Mr. Rivas-Pita: My admonition against regulation was just that: a call for 
free expression. I am not interested in silencing you or seeing that you are 
inhibited by other members. That is the moderator's prerogative, as I thought 
I indicated. I am not "fed up" with you or your points of view, as you seem 
to be of others. I'm here to say what I think and listen to others as they do 
the same, until I'm not. 

I'm also not interested in Pat Robertson. He doesn't speak for me or for the 
United States. I'm sure we can rake up some addle-pated "man of the cloth" in 
Venezuela who calls for the assassination of George Bush. So what?

You may be as explicit as you wish, Mr. Rivas-Pita, according to your own 
style and your readings of my limitations.

I did give some thought last night to Walker Percy and how he might have 
responded to some of these issues and the passions around them, including 
terrorism, nationalism, anti-Semitism and suchlike. I keep trying to imagine 
what a letter or essay of his to the NY Times editorial page, along the lines 
of his famous letter on abortion, might have sounded like. Dr. Percy was 
certainly not a polemicist. His style was restrained, incisive and ironic. 
But would the heat of this issue have moved him into a different pitch? Would 
he have aimed withering fire at George Bush, call him out as the dangerous 
dolt and self-righteous closet martinet so many in the literary and celebrity 
world now are doing? How would he have addressed notions of good and evil, 
the conflict between the West and Islamicism? I also wonder if it is possible 
that he would have not found his voice on the issue at all, would simply have 
chosen to keep his head down, like the bug in the crack of the sidewalk. 
Maybe people live in one time and not another for good reason. Mostly 
questions still. 

Cordially, R. Pauley,  

-----Original Message-----
From: percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org 
[mailto:percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of J Rivas-Pita
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 3:54 AM
To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
Subject: Re: [percy-l] (no subject)


Mr. Pauley, please kindly refer to the links I previously provided to
stories by AP, CNN and The Guardian, and to my first post IN CONTEXT.
(Remember Pat Robertson's inflammatory appeals to assassinate
Venezuela's President, since Venezuela is "in our sphere of
influence"?)
You accuse me of  "bullying and censorial indignation". My dear Mr.
Pauley, have you ever heard of the term "projection", employed in
psychoanalysis? I'm not the one who wrote:

"I'm not sure it is necessary to try to regulate the discussion.
That's what moderators are for."

(?????)

Do I need, my dear Mr. Pauley, have to be more explicit, or do you
understand it the way I've just shown?

Kindest regards,

Julio Rivas-Pita

On 8/26/05, Robert_Pauley AT oxy.com <Robert_Pauley AT oxy.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure it is necessary to try to regulate the discussion. That's what 
> moderators are for.
> 
> You did begin this un-Percy like discussion, Mr. Rivas-Pita, and in a 
> rather pugnacious manner, and seem to wish to continue it so. Fine. But in 
> my view, Mr. Beck's summary of your introduction is not "grossly" 
> inaccurate. For, after all, comparisons, allusions, coy nods, to Hitler, 
> are as silly as they are inflammatory. You must have known at least the 
> latter. How did you think people would respond to the suggestion, nay 
> assertion, their country was the largest terrorist state, etc.. And, if you 
> please, how is this inquiry you enjoin to be conducted "in a Percy vein"? 
> And exactly how does one respond in such a "vein," other than to say, as 
> Percy might have said, that it is morally cattywhompers? I think the 
> responses have been extraordinarily civil. I should have responded more 
> forcefully at the time. Mr. Rivas-Pita, you don't know what you're talking 
> about, and you're doing so in a way to invite rebuke.
> 
> As to McCarthyism, I'm quite familiar with it. It is very much alive today, 
> and takes many forms. One of these forms is the sort of bullying and 
> censorial indignation of "being fed up" with certain positions inimical to 
> one's own, and the related attempt to stifle them.
> 
> But I did get a laugh from your remark about the "Jewish-controlled" media. 
> You haven't been here recently, have you?
> 
> Cordially, R. Pauley
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org 
> [mailto:percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of J Rivas-Pita
> Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 8:50 PM
> To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
> Subject: Re: [percy-l] (no subject)
> 
> 
> I also have an idea -about what you stand for, for instance.
> 
> To grossly misquote me like this:
> 
> " It started off with something like "through a
> percean view, how do you Americans feel about having a leader who is
> comparable to Hitler" (a remark that should be offensive to all Jews and
> thinking people who know history). What do those remarks REALLY have to do
> with Percy, other than the desire to spew out one's agenda under the mask of
> the remarks being "percean"?"
> 
> Those interested enough are quite welcomed to go back in the thread
> and read my post.
> 
> To misquote another list-member, and to misquote him OUT OF CONTEXT
> seems to me plainly dishonest, both morally and intelectually. Which
> confirms my suspicions about your own hidden agenda, masked as
> "fastidiousness".
> 
> As to the remark about "all Jews and thinking people who know
> history", I must say I'm COMPLETELY FED UP MYSELF with the
> manipulative portraying of Jews as -seemingly- the only victims of
> violence and hatred on this planet, to the total exclusion of the
> about 50 MILLION DEAD in WWII who WERE NOT JEWISH, not to mention the
> fact that later on it was Jews who violently persecuted, discriminated
> and robbed of their land Palestinians, sending them into refugee camps
> -something that the Jewish-controlled media in the U.S.A. do not much
> care to show.
> 
> And PLEASE do not come now saying that these remarks are offensive or
> that I must be a Communist or something to the effect -if you have
> some intellectual and moral integrity, do respond to my arguments and
> do not resort to the fascist-style practice of calling me names (à la
> Joe McCarthy, if you happen to know who he was -it depends on how old
> you are or how much you know about XXth century American politics).
> 
> 
> 
> On 8/25/05, dabeck AT iupui.edu <dabeck AT iupui.edu> wrote:
> >
> > I have an idea. I see that some have attempted some marvelous 
> > contortions, in
> > order to relate this discussion to Percy. It's easy to say, I think Percy
> > would relate to XXX. But the fact is, he isn't here to throw in his 
> > opinions.
> > One thing that stands out about Percy is that a) he wrote much of his work
> > during some of the most volatile years of recent history; and b)he seemed 
> > to
> > shy away from making a dogmatic stand on political issues of the day. Some
> > have recommended Love in the Ruins. I agree. The book shows how divided 
> > our
> > country can and has become. But, at the same time, the book never shows 
> > us a
> > particular side we should support (in a Bakhtinian way), left or right. 
> > Percy
> > shows the weaknesses of both. In fact, he points out the myopic view that
> > dogmatic ideologies are prone to.
> >  I don't know. But anytime I hear someone arguing vehemently for one side 
> > or
> > the other, I cast a suspicious eye toward him/her. I really don't think 
> > that
> > either position is that black and white.
> >  For me, that's the big Percean point: He never sided with the far right 
> > or
> > the far left (or the middle, for that matter). Perhaps a better 
> > discussion for
> > this listserv is how to relate Percy's thought to the polarization that is
> > taking place in the U.S.
> >  If not, please do me a favor and carry on the discussion off-list. All 
> > I'm
> > reading is the same tired rhetoric that I (unfortunately) have to hear 
> > every
> > time I turn on the TV and listen to the talking heads of the left and the
> > right. Nothing new is being said, and all of us are to comfortable in our 
> > self-
> > righteous beliefs to really hear the other.
> >  I invite us all to drop our agenda and return to what this list does 
> > best:
> > analyze the works of Percy and how they relate to our everyday lives. The
> > original posting that started this discussion was inappropriate. It had
> > nothing to do with Percy. It started off with something like "through a
> > percean view, how do you Americans feel about having a leader who is
> > comparable to Hitler" (a remark that should be offensive to all Jews and
> > thinking people who know history). What do those remarks REALLY have to do
> > with Percy, other than the desire to spew out one's agenda under the mask 
> > of
> > the remarks being "percean"?
> >  I suggest (PLEASE) take the discussion off list. I'm tired of reading the
> > same old rhetoric that I hear everyday on the news. Let's get back to what
> > this list is for: discussing Percy's philosophy and how we relate it to 
> > our
> > everyday lives. Other listserves exist that welcome one's political 
> > agenda,
> > but I'm hoping this one won't turn out like the others.
> > -David
> > --
> > An archive of all list discussion is available at 
> > https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/
> >
> > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
> >
> 
> 
> --
> Be Happy! (Fr. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996)
> Sé feliz! (P. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996)
> --
> An archive of all list discussion is available at 
> https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/
> 
> Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
> --
> An archive of all list discussion is available at 
> https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/
> 
> Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
> 


-- 
Be Happy! (Fr. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996)
Sé feliz! (P. Benito Ballesteros, OSB, 1924-1996)
--
An archive of all list discussion is available at 
https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/

Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy