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Subject: Orange County, NC Beekeepers

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  • From: Marty Hanks <marty AT justbeenc.com>
  • To: Thomas Grizzle <griz AT mindspring.com>, ocba AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [ocba] Re; honey vs syrup
  • Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 16:54:09 -0500

Thomas,

That really sound like some boring stuff...maybe you nodded a few time and missed something!  I know I would have. 

Only obvious issue w/ the resume angle is it stops pre 2000 when the application methods and chemical compounds changed. Everything in the early 2000's and by 2003-5 they were already dipping(coating) the seeds in the compounds and they...and there semi genetically modified seeds are completely different animals to the fun you were hearing about back in the 90's. The bees are taking in way more chemicals/compounds right from the source...the pollen and nectar....rather than trace elements from spray and ground absorption application methods that wash away. Beacuse of these coting...its in every yummy bite!

Given the recent intentionally misleading "study" done by Bayer...and the only ONE done 4 years after it was supposed to be completed means there is NO real data out there. Sorry...in the "no oversight" era of the early to late 2000's this is a sad but true statement...and look where its gotten us. Our Farmers are dependent on a "cheap" product so they can try and stay competitive in a growing food market. 

Sorry to rain on your impressive, but dated resume, but there is a different playing field out there now....so i'm just say'n.


marty

On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Thomas Grizzle <griz AT mindspring.com> wrote:

Annallys,

 

Your rather definitive sounding statement that “no research exists that addresses the synergistic effect of small doses of human manufactured chemicals…” is just flat out incorrect.  I am a toxicologist who has sat through numerous boring presentations with no noteworthy effects from these sorts of investigations.  I have personally worked for the US Government’s National Toxicology Program (NTP) on contract at RTI (in the RTP) for 10 years of my career, from 1987 – 1997.  Just at RTI there were many studies that investigated the potential for reproductive effects caused by low concentrations of (from memory, may be off a bit but basically..) a mixture fertilizer and a half-dozen or so pesticides.  This work was conducted in mice and rats that I am aware of, but the NTP contracts with multiple labs (our tax dollars at work) and there were probably others.  There were two mixtures, one we called IOWA and the other called CAL because they were designed to mimic actual conditions in these two states.   Here’s the reference if you want to know more…

 

JJ Heindel, RE Chapin, DK Gulati, JD George, CJ Price, MC Marr, CB Myers, LH Barnes, PA Fail, TB Grizzle, BA Schwetz, and RSH Yang.  Assessment of the reproductive and developmental toxicity of pesticide/fertilizer mixtures based on confirmed pesticide contamination in California and Iowa groundwater.  Fundam. Appl. Toxicol. 22, 605-621 (1994).

 

Tom

 

 

From: annallys Goodwin-Landher [mailto:annallys AT hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:13 PM
To: griz AT mindspring.com; OCBA
Subject: RE: [ocba] Re; honey vs syrup

 

Tom,

I appreciate the time, effort and dedication it takes to assess risk.  However, no research exists that addresses the synergistic effect of small doses of human manufactured chemicals on humans, bees, animals, and other life on this planet. 

There was a long period in the history of beekeeping where the assessed risk of using human manufactured chemicals on bees was considered negligible.  The bee school I attended did teach about how the human manufactured chemicals are used and every single presenter related that it might be a good idea to use them as little as possible.  This might just apply to our food sources and bee food sources. 

Regards,

Annallys Goodwin-Landher
PO Box 2744
Chapel Hill, NC 27515
919 933-9109
annallys AT hotmail.com
 


From: griz AT mindspring.com
To: ocba AT lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 19:13:16 -0500
Subject: [ocba] Re; honey vs syrup

One of the things I do in my work is risk assessment.  Right or wrong, I look at the honey vs. syrup question a little differently than I’ve seen expressed thus far. 

 

1)      The actual risk you take by consuming honey with trace amounts of human manufactured chemicals (from sugar) is minuscule, vanishingly small, even if you sat down to a huge portion of honey.

2)      The actual risk you take by consuming honey with naturally occurring botulinum spores (often present in honey) is high enough that if you are a child (<1 year), due to differences in digestion that I don’t have a clue about, you can develop a serious toxicity eating honey (botulism poisoning).

3)      The actual risk you take by consuming honey that was made from naturally occurring blooming azaleas, rhododendrons, laurels, and probably many other plants is case by case, but can cause a type of intoxication and I hear even death on rare occasions.  If you are a healthy person, this is probably not a concern, but if you are old and/or have health issues, it could happen.  Moreover, these sorts of potential problems with “toxic honey” are much more likely to occur with hobby beekeepers than commercial honey.

4)      If you drive or ride in a car, there is something like a 100% chance that in your lifetime you will suffer a life threatening event, and yet many of us happily motor around, texting, radio on high, steering with our pinky finger, oblivious. 

5)      About the riskiest thing us men can do is to be unmarried! (shaves about 10 years off your life expectancy)

 

People are willing to assume huge risk if they feel they are the one in control, but even a tiny risk and no control = HUGE worry.  Worry first about things with actual high risk, and things way down the list (“tainted” sugar) are largely a waste of time and energy (and money).  If you use tobacco products or alcohol (both known human carcinogens), are a rock climber or a farmer and worry about honey contamination from sugar, well, you get the picture. 

 

My personal objective with beekeeping is the enhancement/maximization of pollination in my backyard nano-farm.  If you think about how much energy goes into growing sugar cane, then processing the sugar and shipping it NC, there is a lot of embodied energy (oil) in 5 pounds, many times more than the food value contained in the sugar itself.  I am new to beekeeping and am going to try to use as little sugar as possible, and if that means the bees get most of the honey, so be it.  I get the fruits and vegetables.

 

Anyway, just sayin’…

 

Tom Grizzle

Chapel Hill native


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--
Marty Hanks
Just Bee, Apiaries
 
 Home of the Orange County Honey Project.
"Created by Artisans....Bottled by Humans"




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