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  • From: annallys Goodwin-Landher <annallys AT hotmail.com>
  • To: <jeff.bollinger AT gmail.com>, OCBA <ocba AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [ocba] Re; honey vs syrup
  • Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 16:51:09 -0500

A friend just sent me the following link telling what chemicals are found on our foods and whether they are carcinogenic, neuro-toxic, hormone disruptors, developmental or reproductive/disruptors, and harmful to honeybees.  
http://www.whatsonmyfood.org/food.jsp?food=HY

Annallys Goodwin-Landher
PO Box 2744
Chapel Hill, NC 27515
919 933-9109
annallys AT hotmail.com
 


> Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 13:21:11 -0500
> From: jeff.bollinger AT gmail.com
> To: ocba AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [ocba] Re; honey vs syrup
>
>
> Interesting points! My field of work is also primarily risk
> analysis/acceptance so I'm familiar with this concept. Essentially,
> risk = threat * exposure, which is what you've laid out here.
>
> However the original question was largely misunderstood - I'm not
> concerned about eating honey from bees that have been fed something
> other than honey. My original message had nothing to do with this
> premise. I'm more concerned about the effects (known and unknown) of
> refined sugar on the bees, not on humans.
>
> Lots of beekeepers use sugar, and some (larger operations) use HFCS. My
> concern was primary with having to buy sugar (by the way, I'm not
> singling out Food Lion for those who were offended)
>
> To put it simply, what long-term effects manifest when bees are
> repeatedly fed something OTHER than honey/bee-bread.
>
> This kind of sparked my curiosity on the topic (well this, plus the fact
> that I'm cheap and lazy):
>
> http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=to-bee-or-not-to-bee-09-08-21
>
> > when you feed honeybees honey, they upregulate their cytochrome p450 monooxygenases, these enzymes that process among other things plant chemicals, when you give them sugar, it's nothing. So when you feed them on a sugar diet they are not turning on their chemical processing equipment, so this is something that nobody expected. I mean people aren't used to thinking of honeybees as broad generalists because they'll feed on hundreds of different flowers, but in a way they are dietary super specialists because they feed on this narrow range—they feed on pollen, honey and bee bread. And granted the components can come from all different places, but feeding on nectar or honey derived from nectars [is a] very different proposition from feeding on other types of plant tissue because plants load up their vulnerable tissues with chemicals, you know, natural pesticides, so that insects won't eat them, but they want insects to eat nectar; that's the whole point [of nectar].
>
>
> > Back in the '70s the dietary studies were conducted, at least one of the USDA bee labs, and certainly short term there is no longevity effect. And that actually led to the widespread adoption of these alternative diets. But nobody was looking at the microbial symbionts in the gut, nobody was looking at the detoxification enzymes, we didn't even know to look. So there may be subtle effects.
>
>
> All in all, using the formula above, the risk to the bees is relatively
> low (threat in this case is simply 'unknown' although exposure is high),
> but I wasn't asking for a spurious judgement on risk calculation.
>
> I was really fishing for ideas on how to get the maximum amount of honey
> for myself, while not deviating too much from the bees' natural diet.
> We can go down another rathole and talk about how a Langstroth hive
> system isn't really "natural", but that's not really my concern. I was
> thinking something along the lines of having 2 hives that you harvest
> ALL honey from, then keep 1 or 2 other that just make honey for the
> other bees.
>
> Also, I ONLY harvest honey in the Spring (usually June). I take all I
> can then and take no more the rest of the year. I still end up having
> to feed in the summer, fall, and winter to keep the hives going. I
> started my latest hives this past May so I do have to feed them to make
> sure I have a huge population for the impending honey flow.
>
> Thanks!
> Jeff
>
>
>
> On 2/22/12 7:13 PM, Thomas Grizzle wrote:
> > One of the things I do in my work is risk assessment. Right or wrong, I
> > look at the honey vs. syrup question a little differently than I’ve seen
> > expressed thus far.
> >
> >
> >
> > 1) The actual risk you take by consuming honey with trace amounts
> > of *human manufactured* chemicals (from sugar) is minuscule, vanishingly
> > small, even if you sat down to a huge portion of honey.
> >
> > 2) The actual risk you take by consuming honey with *naturally
> > occurring* botulinum spores (often present in honey) is high enough that
> > if you are a child (<1 year), due to differences in digestion that I
> > don’t have a clue about, you can develop a serious toxicity eating honey
> > (botulism poisoning).
> >
> > 3) The actual risk you take by consuming honey that was made from
> > *naturally occurring* blooming azaleas, rhododendrons, laurels, and
> > probably many other plants is case by case, but can cause a type of
> > intoxication and I hear even death on rare occasions. If you are a
> > healthy person, this is probably not a concern, but if you are old
> > and/or have health issues, it could happen. Moreover, these sorts of
> > potential problems with “toxic honey” are much more likely to occur with
> > hobby beekeepers than commercial honey.
> >
> > 4) If you drive or ride in a car, there is something like a 100%
> > chance that in your lifetime you will suffer a life threatening event,
> > and yet many of us happily motor around, texting, radio on high,
> > steering with our pinky finger, oblivious.
> >
> > 5) About the riskiest thing us men can do is to be unmarried!
> > (shaves about 10 years off your life expectancy)
> >
> >
> >
> > People are willing to assume huge risk if they feel they are the one in
> > control, but even a tiny risk and no control = HUGE worry. Worry first
> > about things with actual high risk, and things way down the list
> > (“tainted” sugar) are largely a waste of time and energy (and money).
> > If you use tobacco products or alcohol (both known human carcinogens),
> > are a rock climber or a farmer and worry about honey contamination from
> > sugar, well, you get the picture.
> >
> >
> >
> > My personal objective with beekeeping is the enhancement/maximization of
> > pollination in my backyard nano-farm. If you think about how much
> > energy goes into growing sugar cane, then processing the sugar and
> > shipping it NC, there is a lot of embodied energy (oil) in 5 pounds,
> > many times more than the food value contained in the sugar itself. I am
> > new to beekeeping and am going to try to use as little sugar as
> > possible, and if that means the bees get most of the honey, so be it. I
> > get the fruits and vegetables.
> >
> >
> >
> > Anyway, just sayin’…
> >
> >
> >
> > Tom Grizzle
> >
> > Chapel Hill native
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