North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

[Michael Dossett <phainopepla@yahoo.com>]

Kevin,
 
rBGH (recombinant bovine growth hormone) is the same as BST (Bovine 
somatotropin) that Mark mentions.  Two different names for the same 
substance.  As for what constitutes "organic" milk, the regs are such that 
basically the only difference between most organic dairies and conventional 
ones (in this country at least) is that organic cows don't recieve 
antibiotics or BST and must be raised on organically grown feed.  The vast 
majority of organic milk in this country is not raised on pasture or any 
other such manner which most would consider to be more sustainable.

In Europe and elsewhere studies have shown that milk from cows raised on 
pasture contains more beneficial nutraceuticals (sorry I can't remember which 
ones off the top of my head) than those raised on silage or concentrate.  
Better quality feed = better quality milk.  Unfortunately the holsteins used 
in commercial milk production in this country cannot survive on a pasture 
diet, and the other breeds don't produce nearly as much milk, which is why 
they are rarely used.  Quite the conundrum.

In any event this is all off topic from the list and should probably be taken 
to personal emails for further discussion...

Michael
 
Michael Dossett Corvallis, Oregon www.Mdossettphoto.com phainopepla@yahoo.com


--- On Tue, 3/10/09, Kevin Moore <aleguy33@yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Kevin Moore <aleguy33@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Got Milk OFF TOPIC
To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Tuesday, March 10, 2009, 12:22 PM






The hormone I'm told that is used on milk cows is RGBH. I also know that many 
substances, especially pesticides, are actually more dangerous at low levels 
than high ones. This is presumed to be because the body doesn't recognize the 
chemical as foreign at low enough levels, while at higher levels the immune 
system will act to fight it. I don't know. The actual mechanism is still 
under investigation.
P.S. I don't think much of any organic farmer who isn't capable of 
controlling pests such as flies, without chemical pesticides. I suspect they 
are running some sort of feedlot operation that is unsuitable for the organic 
production of livestock. A flock of chickens coming along behind pastured 
cows should be more than enough to keep the flies under control.





From: Mark Angermayer <hangermayer@isp.com>
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 3:03:54 PM
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Got Milk OFF TOPIC

Yes, it's more precise to say they don't dump milk just because antibiotics
can be detected.  The whole issue of detecting possible toxins may be best
summed up by a conversation I had with a researcher at Bayer Crop Science.
He told me some problems of some outdated regulations.  Apparently many
regs. for pesticides were written with phrases like "no residue".  When the
regs. were originally written the best detection equipment was in ppm.  Now
with advances in science, they can now detect parts per billion, which,
according to the researcher, leads to a lot of pointless and uneccesary
expense in licensing pesticides.  At some point the miniscule residue level
is essentially zero, even though it may be detectable.

I don't know what the allowable levels for various antibiotics are in milk.
I do know they dump milk though.  My wife, more precisely, works as an
accountant for a dairy regulatory agency.  The accounting for the dumped
milk loads comes across her desk.  In terms of hormones in milk, BST (the
only hormone used for dairy cows) is naturally produced in the cow anyway.
Cows supplemented with extra BST do not pass extra BST through their milk.
The FDA maintains there is no health risk of milk from BST cows.

In saying that, most non-organic milk is produced from non-BST cows, so it's
becoming a mute point anyway.  For many years, the dairy industry has
voluntarily moved away from using BST because of public opinion.  Some
states will not allow the marketing of BST milk.  The move away from BST is
not from concerns about health issues of BST treated cows, but because of
negative consumer opinions.  Perception is reality.

As an interesting aside, some people in my wife's office will not drink
organic milk.  They've been on too many organic farms where the fly problems
were horrendous.  Indeed organic bulk milk tests many times higher in
bacteria count than non-organic milk.  True, pasturization kills nearly all
the bacteria anyway, but they still won't drink organic.  Again perception
is reality.

Mark
KS

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Kevin Moore
To: North American Fruit Explorers
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Jam too sweet?


Food processors do a lot of things that would make most people avoid their
products if they knew about them. The USDA has been steadily diluting the
requirements for the National Organic Program to allow them to do the same
things and still call the food "organic." As far as milk goes, any milk from
a "standard" dairy will have not only antibiotic residues, but hormone
residues as well. They will not dump a load of milk for antibiotic residues,
because all non-organic milk contains them. Most likely, if they dump milk
it is because it has higher than ALLOWABLE LEVELS in it. In any case I find
the hormones to be more disturbing than the antibiotics.





From: Mark Angermayer <>
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 9:29:30 PM
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Jam too sweet?

Michael,

That's astounding.  Why would jam companies go to the trouble of bleaching
the berries first, then recoloring them?  If they want darker jam, why don't
they just add food coloring?

It sounds strangely like urban legends I've heard in the ag industry.  Like
the one, milk is full of antibiotics  (My wife (who works in the dairy
industry) tells me they test each load before it's unloaded.  If they find
antibiotics, the whole semi-load is dumped.)  Bleaching strawberries and
recoloring them is so weird, if I hadn't heard of it from you, I'd never
believed it.

Mark
KS

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