North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

[Anthony Curcio <apc@vassolinc.com>]

Last year we tapped 30 Box Elder trees, this year we will tap 50. Prior to 
discovering these trees held this wonderful secret we like many were on a 
mission to rid our land of this brittle weed. Today when we see them our 
thoughts shift to spring and the great time we have boiling sap on the 
recycled barrel we turned into a wood stove. I would add that the ratio goes 
up when using BE's to @ 40 -1 sap to syrup.
Anthony z4b

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Steve's first persimmon (Steve)
   2. Re: Steve's first persimmon (Steve)
   3. Re: Steve's first persimmon (Steve)
   4. Lucky' tree syrup (Alan Haigh)
   5. Re: Steve's first persimmon (bmn@iglou.com)
   6. Re: maple sugaring at home (bluestem_farm@juno.com)
   7. Re: Lucky's tree syrup (Lucky.Pittman@murraystate.edu)
   8. Home persimmon astringency removal?
      (Lucky.Pittman@murraystate.edu)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:24:39 -0500
From: Steve <sdw12986@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Steve's first persimmon
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <49828F17.2020002@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Thanks Alan. I waited to reply until I ate that 2nd, firmer persimmon. I
ate it this evening and I shared this one with my wife. It actually was
mostly brown-orange inside so I think it's good that I didn't wait much
longer. It also had a slightly square shape. I take that as a sign that
maybe it wasn't fully mature and filled out when it was picked. Even
with those problems, it was really quite tasty and worth eating.
My good news is that I didn't pay as much as I thought I did. I'll
explain that in my next post.

Steve


Alan Haigh wrote:
> Steve, the persimmon you had is a Fuyu which is a non-astringent kaki
> persimmon.  To many, these are best eaten when still firm with just a
> little give under pressure.  The Isreali growers call it something else
> which I forget, but it is just a marketing strategy.  It is the
> astringent varieties that need to be eaten mushy soft.
>
> I often buy them from Asian grocery  stores around here for more like 50
> cents a piece.  Being near NYC can have its advantages.  In Nov. into
> Dec. they often have Fuyus from Ca. that can be quite a bit bigger and
> just a little less sweet which isn't a disadvantage really.
>
> I like the native persimmons I have tried but I was brought up eating
> Kakis and I've always loved them and sought them out.  Pure sugar with
> texture can be nice.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:38:31 -0500
From: Steve <sdw12986@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Steve's first persimmon
To: nottke1 <nottke1@earthlink.net>,    North American Fruit Explorers
        <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <49829257.70005@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

I'm really glad you said that! Here's why....

I meant to check the store receipt to see if I really paid $2 each for
those things. I know that's what the sign said above the small display.
I thought the receipt was long gone but my wife found it somewhere
because there it was on the kitchen counter this evening. I looked and
instead of persimmon, it showed as "Sharonfruit 2@.66 each". I told my
wife that we got a deal because they rang them up as some other fruit.
She mildly scolded me for being happy that we cheated the store. (She's
obviously a saint.)
Well, now I can tell her nobody got cheated because that's another name
for persimmon (in this one situation, anyway). I even found the sticker
I pulled off the one we ate tonight and sure enough, the biggest word in
the center of the sticker was "Sharon". I probably saw that before, long
before I looked at the receipt, and thought it was the name of some
grower and not their name for the fruit.

Steve

nottke1 wrote:
> The Israeli persimmons are sold around here as Sharon Fruit.
>
>
>     Steve, the persimmon you had is a Fuyu which is a non-astringent
>     kaki persimmon.  To many, these are best eaten when still firm with
>     just a little give under pressure.  The Isreali growers call it
>     something else which I forget, but it is just a marketing strategy.
>     It is the astringent varieties that need to be eaten mushy soft.
>
>
>
>
> Jim Nottke
> Zone 7
> Pfafftown, North Carolina
>
>
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:47:19 -0500
From: Steve <sdw12986@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Steve's first persimmon
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <49829467.1000105@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed



yarrylo@hotmail.com wrote:
> ...............
>....................
> The Israeli persimmon commonly available in supermarkets is the Sharon
> fruit, a PCA cultivar "Triumph."  The fruit as sold is similar to Fuyu
> (a PCNA cultivar) in color, shape, size, consistency and taste, but
> only because it has been chemically or thermally treated to precipitate
> the soluble tannins and remove the astrigency. Astringent
> persimmons  may be cold stored for longer periods of time than
> non-astringent allowing the Sharon fruit to serve as a Fuyu substitute
> during the off-season when it sells at a premium price.
>
> Alan Stein
> Pittsburgh, PA

That was very informative. Thanks.

It has me wondering about the process you know they use to get rid of
the astringency when the fruit is still firm. Wouldn't it be great if
this was something that could be done at home? Wouldn't it be great if
it worked on American persimmons?
I think it would be a real advantage to the home growers with a bumper
crop of American persimmons. Give some of then the treatment so they
could be eaten early and perhaps firm, for a change. It would kind of
spread out the fresh eating season.
I can't grow persimmons but if I could, I think I would be digging for
the information on how they do that.

Steve


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 06:21:19 -0500
From: Alan Haigh <alandhaigh@gmail.com>
Subject: [NAFEX] Lucky' tree syrup
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID:
        <1f544d60901300321o9e6a8f3oc95867d77e214bc5@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

My response to Lucky's taste tests of syrups is that if you add sugar it's
just not in the same category as maple syrup.  You might as well add
chocolate syrup and vanilla if you can add sugar.  I like the idea of
getting the energy (sugar) from the tree.  We are tree people-  The Messai
Mara are cattle people.  They drink the blood of their sacred cows, we drink
tree sap.
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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 08:06:31 -0500
From: bmn@iglou.com
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Steve's first persimmon
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <4982FB57.4070807@iglou.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

Steve wrote:
> That was very informative. Thanks.
>
> It has me wondering about the process you know they use to get rid of
> the astringency when the fruit is still firm. Wouldn't it be great if
> this was something that could be done at home? Wouldn't it be great if
> it worked on American persimmons?
 >
> I think it would be a real advantage to the home growers with a bumper
> crop of American persimmons. Give some of then the treatment so they
> could be eaten early and perhaps firm, for a change. It would kind of
> spread out the fresh eating season.
 >
> I can't grow persimmons but if I could, I think I would be digging for
> the information on how they do that.

Over the years I've heard of many "methods" to render green Diospyros
virginiana ripe...everything from freezing, repeated freeze/thaw cycles,
ethylene, etc. etc.  I've never seen one that was reliable (or even that
I found would sometimes work).  Jerry Lehman and others can speak to
that as well.  That said, I did try bringing in whole branches hit by
twig girdlers.  The branches each had more than 10 persimmons, some 20.
  I left them at room temp in my lab and after a couple of weeks they
were   losing mositure.  However, because I'm a persimmon freak and
can't leave well enough alone...I tried them.  They were orange but
still astringent when I brought them in (again...can't leave well enough
alone).  But after sitting there on the branch for a few weeks they were
no longer astringent but were much less moist.  I plan on trying this
again next season to make sure it wasn't a fluke.


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 13:46:15 GMT
From: "bluestem_farm@juno.com" <bluestem_farm@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] maple sugaring at home
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <20090130.074615.8065.0@webmail04.dca.untd.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Michele,
I can only answer half of your question.  When I make syrup I cook it inside 
despite all of the evaporation.  I figure that the wood in the house dries 
too much over time, anyway... but our house may not be as tight as it should 
be.   My guess as to why they say that you shouldn't let it cool is that if 
you do and if it stays room temp. for too long things can start to grow in 
it, and your syrup can get wierd.  But if it cools down fairly quickly and if 
you boil it hard when you start it up again you should kill anything that got 
started.  I only boil mine down about half as far as it should go most of the 
time; it spoils faster after you open the jars, but I don't like things super 
sweet so it works for me.
Muffy Barrett
SC Wisconsin

-- Michele Stanton  wrote:

Hi All,I have mature red maple trees, at least one sugar maple, and would 
like to try sugaring. I also have boxelder trees.  I have also heard the 
advice about not cooking down the sap indoors unless I want to wash all the 
walls and ceilings, etc. I was also told that syrup should be cooked 
continually and not allowed to cool until it is ready to seal.   So my 
question is: how can you safely cook down the syrup with standard home 
kitchen equipment outdoors?  Is it really necessary to keep it cooking 
through the night, in otherwards, continuously until it is sufficiently 
boiled down, as opposed to cooking it during the day, letting it cool in a 
covered container at night, and then resuming the cooking the next day, etc.? 
 My largest pots are a regular black enameled water-bath canner, and a 
pressure canner, and if the ratio of sap to finished syrup is 30:1, that's a 
lot of evaporation. Those of you who have tried it at home-- how did you do 
it?  Do you mind sharing your tricks
  of the trade? ThanksMichele Stanton
____________________________________________________________
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Message: 7
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 07:57:12 -0600
From: "Lucky.Pittman@murraystate.edu" <Lucky.Pittman@murraystate.edu>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Lucky's tree syrup
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID:
        <43486d91c44c445bb0c4e94bf114f428.Lucky.Pittman@murraystate.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Alan,
While my hickory syrup is made sweet by adding sugar,
the walnut & butternut syrups in the NNGA article
were made in the same manner as those made by tapping
members of the genus Acer - collection of sap and
boiling to evaporate excess water.
I suppose one could tap other members of the
Juglandaceae - the hickories and pecans - but I'm not
sure that it would be a commercially viable
enterprise, and it might be that the environmental
conditions necessary for a good 'sap run' are just
not typically present in Southern pecan groves or
midwestern oak/hickory forests.
Lucky

------- Original Message -------
>From    : Alan Haigh[mailto:alandhaigh@gmail.com]
 My response to Lucky's taste tests of syrups is that
if you add sugar it's just not in the same category
as maple syrup.  You might as well add chocolate
syrup and vanilla if you can add sugar.  I like the
idea of getting the energy (sugar) from the tree.  We
are tree people-  The Messai Mara are cattle people.
 They drink the blood of their sacred cows, we drink
tree sap.




------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 08:02:24 -0600
From: "Lucky.Pittman@murraystate.edu" <Lucky.Pittman@murraystate.edu>
Subject: [NAFEX] Home persimmon astringency removal?
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID:
        <1fbcaa7ac7bd4ad59ee5211bec7f88f1.Lucky.Pittman@murraystate.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

I believe that I've seen in print, somewhere, that
the Sharon Fruit(actually 'Triumph', as others have
mentioned previously) have their astringency removed,
chemically, by some process utilizing C02 - I presume
they're subjected to an atmosphere of high CO2
concentration for some period of time.
Guess if a person had access to CO2 gas cylinders,
and knew what concentration to subject fruit to, and
for how long, that you might be able to do it at home

Lucky







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