North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

[Heron Breen <breen@fedcoseeds.com>]

Thanks Dave for this input. Go get 'em! I just saw a great production of Man 
of
LaMancha this weekend, by the way...
Keep up the good, inspiring work,
Heron, from Maine

On Mon May  2  7:35 , 'Dave Griffin' <griffingardens@earthlink.net> sent:

>  Grazing is the cause of widespread poison ivy, autumn olive, buckthorn,
>honeysuckle...not the solution. The disturbance from cattle - including
>soil compaction, elimination of native vegetation competition, exposure of
>mineral soil for seed germination - provides ideal conditions for these
>invasives to increase and thrive. Its much easier to preserve healthy woods
>than to restore them but restoration can be done with work and time. First
>eliminate the seed trees. Then regular selective weeding over time
>gradually reduces the invasives and increases the natives. 
>  Buckthorn pulls easily in the spring right after the frost goes out of
>the ground and, with the seed trees gone,  there is less of it every year.
>After 12 years or so its a 2 afternoon job now for 25 acres of woods. The
>Europeans are easy to spot then and its a nice, bugless time to be in the
>woods anyway. I haven't had much luck with Roundup on poison ivy. Mine is
>mostly on the edges in the grass and Roundup kills the competition while
>only burning off the tops of the p.i. so it comes back stronger than ever.
>I used a broadleaf herbicide - harsh maybe - but now it is gone (except 
>for a very few new shoots) as the grass that remains helps choke out any
>regeneration and I don't have to re-apply something also harsh, even if it
>is less so, on a continuing basis. Harsh too is the Tordon I use of the
>larger weedy trees and on the Honeysuckle which doesn't pull cleanly. On
>the other hand, a little drop will do you on a cut stump so there is no
>peripheral damage from overspray and, since you can be selective, the
>released native competition takes over the newly opened space. Tordon is
>effective but not in the spring as the rising sap washes it off the stump.
>So I flag the Honeysuckle then and cut it in September when the plant takes
>it down into the roots. This is hot, buggy work  but carries the
>satisfaction of knowing it is more effective than cursing and it makes the
>beer taste great.
>  Originally this job looked to be impossibly overwhelming but with
>diligence in time I have an island of good quality native woods in a sea of
>European weeds. Most of the new buckthorn seedlings come up under the
>mother tree and it is important to first eliminate them. Then, as the woods
>continues to get healthier, it fights off the new invaders from the outside
>in an increasingly more effective way with diminishing help from me. This,
>the four hundredth anniversary of Cervantes, is a great year to celibate by
>beginning to tilt at this windmill. Not all the seemingly Quixotic ventures
>turn out to be so.
>
>Dave
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: bluestem_farm@juno.com bluestem_farm@juno.com>
>> To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Date: 5/1/05 10:18:56 PM
>> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Killing Poison Ivy Organically/elevation
>>
>>
>> Tanis,
>> I've seen p.i. on very dry sand, in oak barrens in and out of the shade,
>and I'm pretty sure that I've seen it in marshes, too.  I think around here
>it may be grazing that keeps it down.  Our farm was pastured fencerow to
>fencerow by cattle and then sheep before we bought it, in the woods and
>everywhere.  And we had virtually no p.i. when we bought it; now it is
>moving in and spreading (along with the autumn olive and other things) such
>that I've been threatening to get some highlander cattle.  Actually I want
>them for the brush control, but if they kept down the poisons that would be
>great.
>> Muffy
>>
>> -- "tanis cuff"  wrote:
>> WI p.ivy doesn't mind cold winters, not much bothered by dry soil either.
>I 
>> don't recall seeing it on the driest sand, nor in marshes, otherwise
>"it's 
>> everywhere".  Could elevation really be the limiting factor?  Seeds are 
>> moved by birds; are they very strict about elevation?
>>
>>
>> On May 1, 2005, at 3:43 PM, Pat Meadows wrote:
>>
>> >We don't seem to have any poison ivy in this area
>> >(Appalachian Mountains in northern Pennsylvania).  It
>> >surprised me, but I have not seen any in four years of
>> >living here and I recognize it when I see it.
>> >
>> >I can only assume the winters are too cold for it (the
>> >lowest temperature we've experienced here is -26 F).
>> >Anyway, it doesn't seem to be here.
>> >
>> >Pat
>> >--
>> >
>>
>> I think you're right about the temperature.  There's a fairly sharp line
>in 
>> NH and upstate NY between where the poison ivy grows, and where it
>doesn't.  
>> I'm pretty sure it corresponds to winter low temps.  At any rate, I know 
>> several places where it grows next to the water, or in the valley, but 
>> doesn't grow once you get a little elevation.
>>
>> Ginda
>>
>>
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