North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

["Daniel Hammond" <megdanh@comcast.net>]

Title: Re: [NAFEX] apple tree size and harvest q's

Good Evening,

 

    I've got 10 - 20 sheep grazing my 5 acre pasture and have apple trees planted both inside and outside the pasture.  I've planted a few widely spaced disease resistance standards on Antanovka (old timers from FEDCO's collection and new fangled from NY State Experimental Station, PRI program, U Minnesota etc.) inside the pasture and rows of disease susceptible semi-dwarfs outside for easier access.

 

    Here's my rational and some observations.  Hopefully it will be applicable to your situation.

   One reason to plant semi-dwarfs is that they are easier to manage because much of what you work on is at a convenient height.   My sheep love to browse on fruit trees and they can reach significant portions even a mature semi-dwarf and do serious damage.  If you prune away everything they can reach you might not have much of a tree left.  New growth is what they prefer and while it may seem safely above nibbling height remember that young branches bend and can easily be pulled lower.  I've built very sturdy cages around each of the young standards in the pasture to protect them until they are tall enough, have thick enough bark to resist gnawing, and have enough strength in the trunk to resist the 250 lb ram when he wants to scratch that hard to reach spot by rubbing up against a tree.  You can probably guess how much of the above was deduced by my insightful mind versus seen in 20/20 hindsight.  It is a bit humbling to be taught by a sheep!

 

    My pasture has a pre-existing standard apple of full height and the sheep love the drops and the shade it provides.  The best grass in the pasture is under the tree.  The grass probably benefits from the shade of the tree and the extra manure from the sheep loafing in the vicinity.  I'm hoping to replicate these favorable circumstances with the other standards I've planted.  There's not a lot of room to rest under a Gala on M-26.

 

    A note on sheep.  3 - 4 sheep on 5+ acres is a very light stocking rate.  You'll have to manage you grazing carefully.  If left to roam freely they will eat only their favorites and leave the rest to go to seed, meaning your pasture gets worse every year.  I recommend either more sheep or get some portable fencing and do rotational grazing to force reasonably even grazing.

 

    Best of Luck.

 

                               Dan Hammond, zone 5b

----- Original Message -----

From: John Bunker

To: North American Fruit Explorers

Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 1:01 PM

Subject: Re: [NAFEX] apple tree size and harvest q's

Andrew,

Here is soon information.  I'm sure others will varying takes on your questions.

-does anyone know where i can buy a copy of "ecological fruit production in the north" by bart hall?  i cant find it anywhere on teh internet.

my response:  It is out of print.  We may have a few copies somewhere.  If you're interested, contact me off-list and I'll look.


-i was told to get standard size fruit trees bc it is a small venture and cold climate.  with an "Anatanovka" (spelling ?) rootstock.  i dont really want a 20 or 30 foot tall tree.  does anyone know how large an apple will get on that rootstock, i was told 12-15 feet on teh st lawrence nursery site, but a standard gets bigger, correct?  to my understanding though a standard lives 100+ years to a semi-dwards 15-20 years and can withstand cold much more readily bc of deeper roots.   suggestions?

my response:   The oldest semi-dwarf trees (probably M7) I've seen were planted in 1950 (documented).  They had stopped bearing and looked tired, old and practically dead.  I have seen one standard planted in 1797 (documented) that bore 5 bushels the year I visited the tree (1999).  Many of the standards here in central Maine are 100 years or more and still look good.   Unchecked, old standards can be huge or rather manageable in size.  I have seen some that look like a large semi-dwarf and others that look like a Sugar Maple.   I have standards (on random seedlings) that are now 20 years old and are roughly 15 feet tall and 20 feet wide.  You can keep them small-ish with pruning but they do want to be big.  

My oldest trees on Antanovka are only 10 years old.  They are about 12 feet tall now.  We mostly sell trees on Antanovka. We do so for a number of reasons.  One is that standards may have a better survival rate when they receive less than optimal care.  Virtually all commercial growers near me plant dwarfs or semis.  M26 is very popular.  We don't get fire blight up here-yet.  There are several other dwarfing rootstocks that many nafex-ers are familiar with.    


-what other rootstocks are suitable to graze animals under? m26?


my response:

I have seen orchards ruined by grazing animals cutting the roots around the trees with their feet.  If I was going to graze my orchard, I would allow the animals near the trees only occasionally.

-does anyone graze under semi-dwarfs?



-why would i NOT want a standard?  why would i WANT a standard?
         to my understanding they are larger and live longer but harder to manage, pick,    spray, etc.


my response:

There are many good arguments on both sides.  My favorite reason for growing standards is this.  I have received great benefit from the old trees near here.  (There are hundreds in this area)  These were all planted by people who never knew anyone alive today.   These trees were a gift to us from them.  When I plant a standard tree, I plant a tree that may be around 100 years after I'm gone  and may be a gift to someone in the future.


-how many apples/bushels etc, under average conditions, ball park figure (i know there are countless issues to take into consideration) will a standard apple tree give and a semi-dwarf give?

my response:

Production figures for various fruits can be found in various publications.   

-how about pears?  how big will a pear on a standard get?  is it the same as apples just on a different rootstock?  issues of PRO and CON with pear standards and dwarfs?

My response:

My pears are all on standards.  The oldest are 20 years old and are 15-20 feet tall.  They are easy to prune to keep a manageable height.

Perhaps this will help.

Regards,

John Bunker
Fedco
PO Box 520
Waterville ME 04903

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