North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

["Mark Lee" <markl@nytec.com>]

The catalog description of Sweet September cherry says it ripens in
August-September.  I'd like to hear from someone that has experience with
this variety (harvest time, yield, flavor, self-fertile?, etc).
-Mark Lee, Seattle

-----Original Message-----
From: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Griffin Gardens
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 6:51 AM
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] RE: Cherries


Hello Richard and Richard,
  Yes the Geisla (Geisen) rootstocks are patented and cannot be purchased
separately  - you have to get them with a cultivar attached and pay the
royalty on both. They seem to be more available in the commercial nurseries
of the west, which is where most of mine came from. I got some face time
with some of the nursery people while there on a fruit vacation a couple of
years ago, which helped immensely to convince some of them that what I was
trying to do was worthy of their taking their time and trouble to sell me
individual trees if I reported back to them on survival... or else they
decided that selling me trees the quickest way to get rid of me. Actually,
I was very pleasantly surprised at the interest they showed. I think some,
not all, have a genuine interest in the trees themselves at that level,
over and above that of mere product. This is much more evident over a desk
than over the phone though. By the way, that fruit tour up the Okinagon is
one I'd recommend to anybody interested in fruit and fruit growing - lots
of small orchards, all with a fruit stand on the hiway where the guy
selling the fruit also prunes the trees. Great learning esperience, not to
mention you can fill up on tree ripened peaches every day.
  Raintree has the largest number of cultivars on Gisela 5 that I am aware
of in the retail trade. My Hudson cherry came from Adams County Nursery in
PA(wholesale with retail sales at a higher price), and Sweet Sept (on
GM-61) from Burnt Ridge, retail in WA.
  I think the main benefit from having a hardy understock for a tender tree
is induction of early dormancy of the cultivar by the rootstock. This
doesn't always happen and it isn't always enough, but it helps some,
especially when combined with other horticultural methods to do this like
late season nutrient and water deprivation. Under these conditions, I see
my peaches on Siberian C and P. americana drop their leaves earlier than
those on Bailey, and much earlier than the ones on Halford and Lovell. I
don't expect the same results with sweets on the tart cherry seedlings as
these have a very late senescence themselves, but at least they wouldn't be
killed by freezing. I might also get some dwarfing from North Star, a
natural dwarf. Come on now, I can't believe somebody hasn't already tried
this. I'd really like to know what you found, good or bad.
  I don't think sweets are compatible on black cherry, but I have a two
year olds on P. fruiticosa and P.padus for trial. So far they look good.
  I had good germination on my tart cherry seeds both with refrigerator
stratified and fall planted. Most Prunus needs a month of warm strat before
cold, which is often overlooked. Otherwise you can just plant them when the
fruit is ripe and let nature do the work. The rodents eat them like they
were chocolate covered though, and they must be protected.

Dave
Central Mn, zone 4a


> [Original Message]
> From: <rmelrose@bluemoo.net>
> To: <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>; <griffingardens@earthlink.net>
 > Date: 7/30/03 9:08:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] RE: Cherries
>
> Yes Dave, plenty of windmills -- and even more things that would benefit
> from a good poke with a sharp stick.
>
> I would be very interested to hear how you get on with the sweets cherries
> grafted onto hardy sour cherries, since I was planning on trying such
> things myself. I will definitely have a go grafting onto some wild Black
> Cherry (although it all seems to have something that looks like black
> knot). My Meteor and Bali pits from last year did not sprout well -- only
2
> of 20 -- probably because I left them out under the snow instead of
> refrigerating them. I am trying some semihardwood cuttings, but without
> much expectation of success.
>
> Clearly if the rootstock is not hardy enough, that is a bad idea and I
> agree about mindless wholesalers. (It is even more annoying to see retail
> places, as they do around here, selling things that would have almost no
> hope of surviving without extreme measures). However, I have never been
> clear as to the degree of hardiness which is actually conferred by a hardy
> rootstock. Okay, the roots are hardier than they would otherwise be but is
> the upper scaffold, even to the buds, really rendered hardier? What is the
> mechanism supposed to be, sap composition?
>
> Where did you get cherries grafted on Gisela 5? I suppose it is patented.
> Frankly I think this is a travesty. Such things should be given Trademark
> protection (i.e. the name should be protected), but the patenting of
living
> organisms is simply appalling to me.
>
> I haven't seen Hudson or Sweet September for sale, but maybe I wasn't
looking.
>
> Richard
>
> On 30 Jul, Griffin Gardens wrote:
> > Excelsior, Sancho! There are windmills to be tilted.
> >   I tried to get all my trees on Gisela 5 for the improved hardiness of
it,
> > which doesn't take much when most sweets are budded on mazzard. I lost
a 3
> > year old North Star on mazzard because the buried bud union hadn't had
time
> > to get onto it's own roots, and the mazzard roots were killed. The local
> > giant wholesale grower propagates it only on mazzard - why put a zone 4
> > tree on zone 5 roots I don't know - but now I bud my own on seedlings of
> > Meteor, North Star or Mesabi. I will be trying sweets on these next
year.
> > Anybody had any experience with this?
> >   Meanwhile, I was successful getting Gisela 5 trees except for dead
Black
> > Gold (supposed to be more hardy) and dead Summit were on Mazzard. Live
> > Hudson (most hardy cv., maybe) is on mazzard. Live Kristin and Sweet
> > September are on GM-61 and live Ulster is on G-6.
> >   The list is for 1st winter trees only. I have 2 winter trees of
Lapins(1
> > ea on G-5 and G-6), Hedlefingen (GM-61), Kristin (G-5) and Rainier
(G-6).
> > The few flower buds on these were killed, but there was virtually no
> > dieback in spite of a long wet fall. Seems to say the older the better.
> >   Recovery has been vigorous on all trees since the June 6th assessment
was
> > made. New growth ranges from 18" - 24" in spite of deer eating it off
twice
> > early on. These sweets do great here in the summertime, its just the
winter
> > that might be a little problem.
> >
> > Dave






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