Mounted search and rescue

["Rick Tracy" <rick@westcoastframe.com>]

Thank you sharing this successful story.  

Rick Tracy
Fire Apparatus Division
3203-D West Capitol Avenue
West Sacramento, CA 95691
916-371-6100 Office
916-371-4072 Fax
916-825-7422 Cell
rick@westcoastframe.com
 

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-----Original Message-----
From: msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Laurie Adams
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 12:12 AM
To: msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [MSAR] MSAR-Riders Digest, Vol 97, Issue 8

        This is a very timely subject. This last month we had a call out for
a missing 23 yr old. The initial time of the call out was 9:30 pm. The
mounted SAR team was called out as was the tracking team. The tracking team
had found some tracks (we had a good picture of the print from the campsite)
and were trying to determine the direction of travel. Our assignment was to
go ahead of them on a road and then do a grid search of a high probability
of tracks area. The tracking team had some tracks but there were many and it
was proving difficult to find direction of travel. Our mounted team went
around them off the trail about 100 yards and then continued our assignment.
After we rejoined the trail for about another 100 yards we noticed tracks.
We got off our horse and assessed them, took a picture and sent it to IC. It
was the track of the subject. We marked them and then were assigned to
continue on with our assignment the tracking team would pick up the tracks
from there. 
        The tracking team showed up established that the tracks were the
subjects but were rather indigent that we had ridden over some of the
tracks! No mention that we could have saved them a significant amount of
time if they had used a leap "frog approach" and allowed us to follow the
direction of travel then if the sign was lost their talents could used. 
        We tried to do our grid search but in a very rocky area with cliffs,
we decided to tell IC it was too dangerous to do a grid search in that
terrain at 2:30 am. The tracking team was putting up a stink that we were in
their way. So a very savvy IC who had some horse experience redirected us to
a containment, assignment traveling on a perimeter trail. We started the
containment assignment at about 3:00 am (weather was of and on freezing
rain) and went about trying our different scanning techniques and
formations. 
        At about 5:30 am we had noted it was not getting light yet and then
both of us picked up some very fresh tracks! I was in the lead and saw them
ahead and my partner was behind, scanning close to the trail. We got off and
took a closer look at the tracks. They were just like the ones we had a
picture of. We sent another picture to IC and then got back on the horses to
follow the direction of travel. 
        IC sent a set of trackers on ATVs to check out the sign. They agreed
they were the subjects and then blew by us following the track on ATVs. We
went a slightly slower pace and discovered a change in direction of travel
from horseback. ( the subject looked like he was back tracking for a while)
There was a junction in the trail the tracks went to the left and so did the
ATVs we again followed and again found a change in direction of travel from
the saddle. (the ATV trackers had missed both) 
        This time the direction was in the opposite direction was the most
current. (the subject had turned around and come back to the intersection
and went to the right. We called in to IC that we were going to follow this
direction of travel. We were able to follow it at a trot and did sound
sweeps at every high point. The ground had been soft and easy to see prints.
It became a much more heavily traveled, and compacted hard surface trail and
more difficult to distinguish his tracks from the others at our speed. We
slowed down but still could not pick up his tracks. We called in to IC and
asked to have another team come in from the trail head and we were going
back to where we had good tracks and follow them. IC approved our
suggestion. We turned around and followed any side trails to make sure we
had not missed his tracks on them. Within 15 minutes we had located the
subject @ 7:30. We think we had passed him because he had gone off the trail
to when he heard our sound sweep to see if he could see any one. He was
cold, tired, and hungry but besides that just fine. We did an assessment and
asked if he wanted to have a ride out on the horse but he said he walked in
and wanted to walk out. We walked him to the trail head were IC met us. 
        I have had 12 years experience with SAR and 6 years as Mounted SAR.
My partner was a new recruit. With a little instruction he was able from
horse back to follow and determine the subjects sign. The trackers were a
little timid but had to admit that we had been able to track him much more
effectively and efficiently than they were. Mounted Man tracking is
definitely a SAR applicable resource! If there are any skeptics send them to
us!
Laurie Adams SAR Mounted SAR Jefferson and Deschutes County. 

-----Original Message-----
From: msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of
msar-riders-request@lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 9:01 AM
To: msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: MSAR-Riders Digest, Vol 97, Issue 8

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Today's Topics:

   1. Tracking from the saddle, etc (Jorene Downs)
   2. Re: Tracking from the saddle, etc ( hoofbeat@columbus.rr.com )
   3. Re: Tracking from the saddle, etc (Paul Fleming)
   4. Re: Tracking from the saddle, etc (pennbo@verizon.net)
   5. Re: Tracking from the saddle, etc (Jorene Downs)
   6. Re: Tracking from the saddle, etc (T'mi Finkle)
   7. Re: Tracking from the saddle, etc (Jorene Downs)
   8. Re: Tracking from the saddle, etc (Paul Fleming)
   9. Re: Tracking from the saddle, etc (Joseph C. Huston)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 13:32:24 -0700
From: "Jorene Downs" <Jorene@CEOates.com>
Subject: [MSAR] Tracking from the saddle, etc
To: "SAR-L" <SAR-L@ml.islandnet.com>, "MSAR-L"
        <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <023201cbfed0$e43c4980$acb4dc80$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I've recently had some SAR trackers scoff [again] about the ability of a
rider to track from the saddle. Yes, you first need to learn tracking from
the ground. Yes, there are times you must dismount for a closer look, but
often you can simply continue to ride for quite a distance when not doing
step-by-step tracking. I've done it, and seen others track successfully from
the saddle. But apparently that information isn't enough to convince the
scoffers. It doesn't seem to matter to some that generations of riders have
successfully tracked cattle, hunted game, pursued fugitives, etc. So I
recommend turning on the TV and watching a few episodes of Mantracker on the
Science channel to see for yourself.

 

http://science.discovery.com/tv/mantracker/ 

 

This reality TV series is based on a mounted tracker  (Canadian cowboy and
active MSAR, Terry Grant) in varied challenging terrain in primarily North
America who has a limited time frame to "capture" two volunteer "fugitives"
who need to elude their pursuer and reach a designated point (location
unknown to the tracker) before a certain time the next day. The volunteer
"fugitives" have a map and compass. The Mantracker has a local rider who
knows the territory assisting him and sharing local terrain knowledge.
Sometimes 1 or both of the "fugitives" make it to their target destination,
but often the Mantracker captures them.

 

While the Mantracker TV show certainly isn't a SAR incident, there are many
similarities to MSAR in the knowledge and skills applied. For example:  

*         Terry Grant will dismount and show the camera what he spotted from
the saddle, and explain what it is ... such as toe digs and longer strides
indicating the volunteers are hustling. 

*         The vast majority of episodes there is reference to the horse
(ears alert and looking) indicating the possible presence of the fleeing or
hiding volunteers ... reinforcing "Look where the horse looks" as a huge
tool for MSAR. 

*         Commonly the volunteers mention a strategy that includes "a horse
can't go here"  to determine where they will go to remain un-captured ...
which sometimes is correct, and often - much to their dismay - is incorrect.
Some of the terrain on horseback in the various Mantracker episodes will
likely surprise most incident management and even some MSAR riders. 

*         Mounted trackers (and "fugitives") are out overnight.

*         Some of the strategies discussed by the Mantracker can be useful
in SAR, particularly if the missing subject appears to be intentionally
eluding the riders/searchers.

 

Tracking training often includes a recommendation to stand on a stump or
boulder to gain a different angle. The saddled horse becomes a mobile stump
for the rider, and often the best angle is to look further ahead than you
would if standing on the ground. For non-riders to try to get a feel for the
height and angle of view to track from the saddle, try standing on a chair
or sitting on the wall  of a pickup truck bed. Look down, then let the eyes
gradually scan out 20 feet or even notably further, depending on the
terrain, light, etc. But dismount - as needed - for a closer look. 

 

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Jorene Downs

SAR, CERT, Emergency Communications

Mounted SAR

http://www.ceoates.com/msar

KJ6JCD 

 

 

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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 20:06:06 -0400
From: " hoofbeat@columbus.rr.com " <hoofbeat@columbus.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Tracking from the saddle, etc
To: " Jorene Downs " <Jorene@CEOates.com>, " SAR-L "
        <SAR-L@ml.islandnet.com>, " MSAR-L " <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <E4.9D.08375.F532EAD4@hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

You can also watch rangers track from cars.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone

----- Reply message -----
From: "Jorene Downs" <Jorene@CEOates.com>
Date: Tue, Apr 19, 2011 4:32 pm
Subject: [MSAR] Tracking from the saddle, etc
To: "SAR-L" <SAR-L@ml.islandnet.com>, "MSAR-L"
<msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>

I've recently had some SAR trackers scoff [again] about the ability of a
rider to track from the saddle. Yes, you first need to learn tracking from
the ground. Yes, there are times you must dismount for a closer look, but
often you can simply continue to ride for quite a distance when not doing
step-by-step tracking. I've done it, and seen others track successfully from
the saddle. But apparently that information isn't enough to convince the
scoffers. It doesn't seem to matter to some that generations of riders have
successfully tracked cattle, hunted game, pursued fugitives, etc. So I
recommend turning on the TV and watching a few episodes of Mantracker on the
Science channel to see for yourself.

 

http://science.discovery.com/tv/mantracker/ 

 

This reality TV series is based on a mounted tracker  (Canadian cowboy and
active MSAR, Terry Grant) in varied challenging terrain in primarily North
America who has a limited time frame to "capture" two volunteer "fugitives"
who need to elude their pursuer and reach a designated point (location
unknown to the tracker) before a certain time the next day. The volunteer
"fugitives" have a map and compass. The Mantracker has a local rider who
knows the territory assisting him and sharing local terrain knowledge.
Sometimes 1 or both of the "fugitives" make it to their target destination,
but often the Mantracker captures them.

 

While the Mantracker TV show certainly isn't a SAR incident, there are many
similarities to MSAR in the knowledge and skills applied. For example:  

*         Terry Grant will dismount and show the camera what he spotted from
the saddle, and explain what it is ... such as toe digs and longer strides
indicating the volunteers are hustling. 

*         The vast majority of episodes there is reference to the horse
(ears alert and looking) indicating the possible presence of the fleeing or
hiding volunteers ... reinforcing "Look where the horse looks" as a huge
tool for MSAR. 

*         Commonly the volunteers mention a strategy that includes "a horse
can't go here"  to determine where they will go to remain un-captured ...
which sometimes is correct, and often - much to their dismay - is incorrect.
Some of the terrain on horseback in the various Mantracker episodes will
likely surprise most incident management and even some MSAR riders. 

*         Mounted trackers (and "fugitives") are out overnight.

*         Some of the strategies discussed by the Mantracker can be useful
in SAR, particularly if the missing subject appears to be intentionally
eluding the riders/searchers.

 

Tracking training often includes a recommendation to stand on a stump or
boulder to gain a different angle. The saddled horse becomes a mobile stump
for the rider, and often the best angle is to look further ahead than you
would if standing on the ground. For non-riders to try to get a feel for the
height and angle of view to track from the saddle, try standing on a chair
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 21:29:36 -0700
From: Paul Fleming <PFLEMING@NWLINK.COM>
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Tracking from the saddle, etc
To: Mounted search and rescue <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <6509D6DF-F50F-437E-9F0F-81CA692BB27D@NWLINK.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Jorene,

Apparently your scoffers aren't horsemen. We know what can be done and it is
really not important they do.

Paul


On Apr 19, 2011, at 1:32 PM, Jorene Downs wrote:

> I've recently had some SAR trackers scoff [again] about the ability of a
> rider to track from the saddle. Yes, you first need to learn tracking from
> the ground. Yes, there are times you must dismount for a closer look, but
> often you can simply continue to ride for quite a distance when not doing
> step-by-step tracking. I've done it, and seen others track successfully
from
> the saddle. But apparently that information isn't enough to convince the
> scoffers. It doesn't seem to matter to some that generations of riders
have
> successfully tracked cattle, hunted game, pursued fugitives, etc. So I
> recommend turning on the TV and watching a few episodes of Mantracker on
the
> Science channel to see for yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> http://science.discovery.com/tv/mantracker/ 
> 
> 
> 
> This reality TV series is based on a mounted tracker  (Canadian cowboy and
> active MSAR, Terry Grant) in varied challenging terrain in primarily North
> America who has a limited time frame to "capture" two volunteer
"fugitives"
> who need to elude their pursuer and reach a designated point (location
> unknown to the tracker) before a certain time the next day. The volunteer
> "fugitives" have a map and compass. The Mantracker has a local rider who
> knows the territory assisting him and sharing local terrain knowledge.
> Sometimes 1 or both of the "fugitives" make it to their target
destination,
> but often the Mantracker captures them.
> 
> 
> 
> While the Mantracker TV show certainly isn't a SAR incident, there are
many
> similarities to MSAR in the knowledge and skills applied. For example:  
> 
> *         Terry Grant will dismount and show the camera what he spotted
from
> the saddle, and explain what it is ... such as toe digs and longer strides
> indicating the volunteers are hustling. 
> 
> *         The vast majority of episodes there is reference to the horse
> (ears alert and looking) indicating the possible presence of the fleeing
or
> hiding volunteers ... reinforcing "Look where the horse looks" as a huge
> tool for MSAR. 
> 
> *         Commonly the volunteers mention a strategy that includes "a
horse
> can't go here"  to determine where they will go to remain un-captured ...
> which sometimes is correct, and often - much to their dismay - is
incorrect.
> Some of the terrain on horseback in the various Mantracker episodes will
> likely surprise most incident management and even some MSAR riders. 
> 
> *         Mounted trackers (and "fugitives") are out overnight.
> 
> *         Some of the strategies discussed by the Mantracker can be useful
> in SAR, particularly if the missing subject appears to be intentionally
> eluding the riders/searchers.
> 
> 
> 
> Tracking training often includes a recommendation to stand on a stump or
> boulder to gain a different angle. The saddled horse becomes a mobile
stump
> for the rider, and often the best angle is to look further ahead than you
> would if standing on the ground. For non-riders to try to get a feel for
the
> height and angle of view to track from the saddle, try standing on a chair
> or sitting on the wall  of a pickup truck bed. Look down, then let the
eyes
> gradually scan out 20 feet or even notably further, depending on the
> terrain, light, etc. But dismount - as needed - for a closer look. 
> 
> 
> 
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> 
> Jorene Downs
> 
> SAR, CERT, Emergency Communications
> 
> Mounted SAR
> 
> http://www.ceoates.com/msar
> 
> KJ6JCD 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <winmail.dat>_______________________________________________
> MSAR-Riders mailing list
> MSAR-Riders@lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/msar-riders



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 00:26:05 -0500 (CDT)
From: pennbo@verizon.net
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Tracking from the saddle, etc
To: msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <435871868.460570.1303277165277.JavaMail.root@vms170027>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 23:44:47 -0700
From: "Jorene Downs" <Jorene@CEOates.com>
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Tracking from the saddle, etc
To: "'Mounted search and rescue'" <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <003201cbff26$70d5a1c0$5280e540$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

From: pennbo@verizon.net
[...] However I wouldn't refer anyone to watch mantracker as an example of
tracking from horseback! He is a pretty poor tracker at best. He has no real
training in any of it. If he didn't have a 'buddy' familiar with the terrain
to help him out I daresay his "prey" would win a lot more often! :-)  But he
makes for good TV and for the completely uninitiated he might actually
convince them we can do...what equestrian teams have been doing for several
centuries!! LOL
Chris

 ================

 

I have to disagree with you on tracking ability, Chris. Consider on the TV
series Terry Grant's role is trying to outsmart his "prey" and intercept
them for "capture" so the emphasis for TV is far more on strategy than on
actual tracking. But he still makes a point of locating and noting
shoeprints for future recognition, and at times will guide the camera to
something like freshly bruised foliage or an overturned rock ... things an
experienced tracker would see.

 

Grant's TV objective isn't to follow where the volunteers actually go,
instead predicting / anticipating so he can get ahead of them to catch them
or gain enough ground with position where he can actually see them and
adjust his strategy. What is shown on Mantracker would be rather similar to
SAR  tracking where you might have someone leapfrog ahead to a trail
intersection or natural track trap to confirm you're still on the right
trail, so you can expedite to get closer to the subject. Another SAR
comparison is the strategy adjustment as the incident evolves.

 

Terrain is always intentionally challenging on the show, giving the
volunteer "prey" lots of opportunity to cut cross country through
environments that will at minimum slow riders, or be unsafe or inaccessible
for riding. Sometimes Grant will check ahead, not find evidence of his
"prey", and backtrack to find the new direction of travel or go check
another possible location, etc. This demonstrates yet another SAR tracking
strategy where parallel trails might be checked for sign if the subject left
the trail.

 

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Jorene Downs

SAR, CERT, Emergency Communications

Mounted SAR

 <http://www.ceoates.com/msar> http://www.ceoates.com/msar

KJ6JCD 

 

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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 06:28:00 -0400
From: "T'mi Finkle" <tfinkle@erols.com>
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Tracking from the saddle, etc
To: "'Mounted search and rescue'" <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <d9dc1f$re2l1t@smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

The truth remains that we are talking about a (made for) television program
here.  Yes, tracking can be done from horseback if the
appropriate conditions are present and I have followed tracks myself while
mounted.  While there are some SAR strategies present in
the show; the show, the program is not about educating SAR responders.  I
consider this show not much different than the CSI
programs that have become so popular that is based upon some real world
application and with the good guys winning most of the time.
Given a different program director's twist and supporting production staff,
Terry Grant's starring role could be that of the "prey,"
thus making the trackers (and their skills) look very foolish. .I enjoy
watching this program just as much as I enjoy NCIS. Now
where is my remote?

 

T'mi

TROTSAR

 

    

 

  _____  

From: msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Jorene Downs
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 2:45 AM
To: 'Mounted search and rescue'
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Tracking from the saddle, etc

 

From: pennbo@verizon.net
[...] However I wouldn't refer anyone to watch mantracker as an example of
tracking from horseback! He is a pretty poor tracker at
best. He has no real training in any of it. If he didn't have a 'buddy'
familiar with the terrain to help him out I daresay his
"prey" would win a lot more often! :-)  But he makes for good TV and for the
completely uninitiated he might actually convince them
we can do...what equestrian teams have been doing for several centuries!!
LOL
Chris

 ================

 

I have to disagree with you on tracking ability, Chris. Consider on the TV
series Terry Grant's role is trying to outsmart his
"prey" and intercept them for "capture" so the emphasis for TV is far more
on strategy than on actual tracking. But he still makes a
point of locating and noting shoeprints for future recognition, and at times
will guide the camera to something like freshly bruised
foliage or an overturned rock ... things an experienced tracker would see.

 

Grant's TV objective isn't to follow where the volunteers actually go,
instead predicting / anticipating so he can get ahead of them
to catch them or gain enough ground with position where he can actually see
them and adjust his strategy. What is shown on
Mantracker would be rather similar to SAR  tracking where you might have
someone leapfrog ahead to a trail intersection or natural
track trap to confirm you're still on the right trail, so you can expedite
to get closer to the subject. Another SAR comparison is
the strategy adjustment as the incident evolves.

 

Terrain is always intentionally challenging on the show, giving the
volunteer "prey" lots of opportunity to cut cross country
through environments that will at minimum slow riders, or be unsafe or
inaccessible for riding. Sometimes Grant will check ahead,
not find evidence of his "prey", and backtrack to find the new direction of
travel or go check another possible location, etc. This
demonstrates yet another SAR tracking strategy where parallel trails might
be checked for sign if the subject left the trail.

 

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Jorene Downs

SAR, CERT, Emergency Communications

Mounted SAR

http://www.ceoates.com/msar

KJ6JCD 

 

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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 04:47:34 -0700
From: "Jorene Downs" <Jorene@CEOates.com>
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Tracking from the saddle, etc
To: "'Mounted search and rescue'" <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <007c01cbff50$bd3ba3a0$37b2eae0$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

LOL!  Seems I need to remind folks my original post was intended to provide
a TV example where those who scoffed at the idea of tracking from the saddle
could see it on camera. It wasn't intended to be an example of SAR / MSAR,
but I used the opportunity to identify some of the knowledge and skills
shown in the program are / can be applied to MSAR.

 

I almost didn't cc MSAR-L, figuring most in MSAR already are at least aware,
even if they don't yet have the skill set. My primary target was non-riders
in SAR on another discussion group, to provide a bit of education. I
apparently accomplished that, based on personal email stating essentially "I
didn't know that!" from several sources. And hopefully the SAR trackers who
recently scoffed at the concept of tracking from the saddle will finally
understand it really can be done. ;-)

 

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Jorene Downs

SAR, CERT, Emergency Communications

Mounted SAR

 <http://www.ceoates.com/msar> http://www.ceoates.com/msar

KJ6JCD 

 

From: T'mi Finkle
The truth remains that we are talking about a (made for) television program
here.  Yes, tracking can be done from horseback if the appropriate
conditions are present and I have followed tracks myself while mounted.
While there are some SAR strategies present in the show; the show, the
program is not about educating SAR responders.  I consider this show not
much different than the CSI programs that have become so popular that is
based upon some real world application and with the good guys winning most
of the time.  Given a different program director's twist and supporting
production staff, Terry Grant's starring role could be that of the "prey,"
thus making the trackers (and their skills) look very foolish. .I enjoy
watching this program just as much as I enjoy NCIS. Now where is my remote?

 

T'mi

TROTSAR

 

    

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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 07:26:41 -0700
From: Paul Fleming <pfleming@nwlink.com>
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Tracking from the saddle, etc
To: Mounted search and rescue <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <4D5CE5A3-1A8B-4E4E-A251-0B70E8814DDC@nwlink.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Chris,

I agree with what you say about the leadership understanding. My comment was
pointed at the "SAR trackers" mentioned. When people are so narrow minded
about a subject it's usually not worth the time to try to enlighten them. I
also fully agree that we must consistently work at spreading the knowledge
of our capabilities.

Yes, Mantracker is pretty good PR for MSAR even if he is a little short on
technique.

Paul




On Apr 19, 2011, at 10:26 PM, pennbo@verizon.net wrote:

> Respectfully, I disagree, Paul. If those who don't ride don't understand
the complete capabilities of our units we will be very underused. The vast
majority of folks who are responsible for assigning mounted units to
particular searches or using them in particular ways within a search are NOT
equestrians.  One of the major battles we fight is spreading the knowledge
of what we CAN do while mounted. :-)
> 
> However I wouldn't refer anyone to watch mantracker as an example of
tracking from horseback! He is a pretty poor tracker at best. He has no real
training in any of it. If he didn't have a 'buddy' familiar with the terrain
to help him out I daresay his "prey" would win a lot more often! :-)  But he
makes for good TV and for the completely uninitiated he might actually
convince them we can do...what equestrian teams have been doing for several
centuries!! LOL
> 
> Chris
>  
>  
> On 04/19/11, Paul Fleming<PFLEMING@NWLINK.COM> wrote:Jorene,
> 
> Apparently your scoffers aren't horsemen. We know what can be done and it
is really not important they do.
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
> On Apr 19, 2011, at 1:32 PM, Jorene Downs wrote:
> 
> > I've recently had some SAR trackers scoff [again] about the ability of a
> > rider to track from the saddle. Yes, you first need to learn tracking
from
> > the ground. Yes, there are times you must dismount for a closer look,
but
> > often you can simply continue to ride for quite a distance when not
doing
> > step-by-step tracking. I've done it, and seen others track successfully
from
> > the saddle. But apparently that information isn't enough to convince the
> > scoffers. It doesn't seem to matter to some that generations of riders
have
> > successfully tracked cattle, hunted game, pursued fugitives, etc. So I
> > recommend turning on the TV and watching a few episodes of Mantracker on
the
> > Science channel to see for yourself.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > http://science.discovery.com/tv/mantracker/ 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > This reality TV series is based on a mounted tracker (Canadian cowboy
and
> > active MSAR, Terry Grant) in varied challenging terrain in primarily
North
> > America who has a limited time frame to "capture" two volunteer
"fugitives"
> > who need to elude their pursuer and reach a designated point (location
> > unknown to the tracker) before a certain time the next day. The
volunteer
> > "fugitives" have a map and compass. The Mantracker has a local rider who
> > knows the territory assisting him and sharing local terrain knowledge.
> > Sometimes 1 or both of the "fugitives" make it to their target
destination,
> > but often the Mantracker captures them.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > While the Mantracker TV show certainly isn't a SAR incident, there are
many
> > similarities to MSAR in the knowledge and skills applied. For example: 
> > 
> > * Terry Grant will dismount and show the camera what he spotted from
> > the saddle, and explain what it is ... such as toe digs and longer
strides
> > indicating the volunteers are hustling. 
> > 
> > * The vast majority of episodes there is reference to the horse
> > (ears alert and looking) indicating the possible presence of the fleeing
or
> > hiding volunteers ... reinforcing "Look where the horse looks" as a huge
> > tool for MSAR. 
> > 
> > * Commonly the volunteers mention a strategy that includes "a horse
> > can't go here" to determine where they will go to remain un-captured ...
> > which sometimes is correct, and often - much to their dismay - is
incorrect.
> > Some of the terrain on horseback in the various Mantracker episodes will
> > likely surprise most incident management and even some MSAR riders. 
> > 
> > * Mounted trackers (and "fugitives") are out overnight.
> > 
> > * Some of the strategies discussed by the Mantracker can be useful
> > in SAR, particularly if the missing subject appears to be intentionally
> > eluding the riders/searchers.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Tracking training often includes a recommendation to stand on a stump or
> > boulder to gain a different angle. The saddled horse becomes a mobile
stump
> > for the rider, and often the best angle is to look further ahead than
you
> > would if standing on the ground. For non-riders to try to get a feel for
the
> > height and angle of view to track from the saddle, try standing on a
chair
> > or sitting on the wall of a pickup truck bed. Look down, then let the
eyes
> > gradually scan out 20 feet or even notably further, depending on the
> > terrain, light, etc. But dismount - as needed - for a closer look. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> > 
> > Jorene Downs
> > 
> > SAR, CERT, Emergency Communications
> > 
> > Mounted SAR
> > 
> > http://www.ceoates.com/msar
> > 
> > KJ6JCD 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > <winmail.dat>_______________________________________________
> > MSAR-Riders mailing list
> > MSAR-Riders@lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/msar-riders
> 
> _______________________________________________
> MSAR-Riders mailing list
> MSAR-Riders@lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/msar-riders
> _______________________________________________
> MSAR-Riders mailing list
> MSAR-Riders@lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/msar-riders

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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 10:27:21 -0500
From: "Joseph C. Huston" <jchuston@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Tracking from the saddle, etc
To: "Mounted search and rescue" <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <AABFBD5F805444DC96C359DF690DAA9F@JCHTOSHIBALP>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

One of the SAR teams I am on has a command structure where those with
experience (mounted and K-9 primarily)  make recommendations to the incident
commander where their resources should be deployed. This chain of
communication has served this team well over the years.


Joseph C. Huston

Confidentiality: This e-mail message contains information from Joe Huston,
which may be privileged, confidential, or otherwise protected from
disclosure. This information is intended only for the use of the individual
or entity named above. If you believe that you received this communication
in error, please e-mail the sender. If you are not the intended recipient,
any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited.



From: Paul Fleming 
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 9:26 AM
To: Mounted search and rescue 
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Tracking from the saddle, etc

Chris, 

I agree with what you say about the leadership understanding. My comment was
pointed at the "SAR trackers" mentioned. When people are so narrow minded
about a subject it's usually not worth the time to try to enlighten them. I
also fully agree that we must consistently work at spreading the knowledge
of our capabilities.

Yes, Mantracker is pretty good PR for MSAR even if he is a little short on
technique.

Paul




On Apr 19, 2011, at 10:26 PM, pennbo@verizon.net wrote:


  Respectfully, I disagree, Paul. If those who don't ride don't understand
the complete capabilities of our units we will be very underused. The vast
majority of folks who are responsible for assigning mounted units to
particular searches or using them in particular ways within a search are NOT
equestrians.  One of the major battles we fight is spreading the knowledge
of what we CAN do while mounted. :-)

  However I wouldn't refer anyone to watch mantracker as an example of
tracking from horseback! He is a pretty poor tracker at best. He has no real
training in any of it. If he didn't have a 'buddy' familiar with the terrain
to help him out I daresay his "prey" would win a lot more often! :-)  But he
makes for good TV and for the completely uninitiated he might actually
convince them we can do...what equestrian teams have been doing for several
centuries!! LOL

  Chris



  On 04/19/11, Paul Fleming<PFLEMING@NWLINK.COM> wrote:Jorene,

  Apparently your scoffers aren't horsemen. We know what can be done and it
is really not important they do.

  Paul


  On Apr 19, 2011, at 1:32 PM, Jorene Downs wrote:

  > I've recently had some SAR trackers scoff [again] about the ability of a
  > rider to track from the saddle. Yes, you first need to learn tracking
from
  > the ground. Yes, there are times you must dismount for a closer look,
but
  > often you can simply continue to ride for quite a distance when not
doing
  > step-by-step tracking. I've done it, and seen others track successfully
from
  > the saddle. But apparently that information isn't enough to convince the
  > scoffers. It doesn't seem to matter to some that generations of riders
have
  > successfully tracked cattle, hunted game, pursued fugitives, etc. So I
  > recommend turning on the TV and watching a few episodes of Mantracker on
the
  > Science channel to see for yourself.
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > http://science.discovery.com/tv/mantracker/ 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > This reality TV series is based on a mounted tracker (Canadian cowboy
and
  > active MSAR, Terry Grant) in varied challenging terrain in primarily
North
  > America who has a limited time frame to "capture" two volunteer
"fugitives"
  > who need to elude their pursuer and reach a designated point (location
  > unknown to the tracker) before a certain time the next day. The
volunteer
  > "fugitives" have a map and compass. The Mantracker has a local rider who
  > knows the territory assisting him and sharing local terrain knowledge.
  > Sometimes 1 or both of the "fugitives" make it to their target
destination,
  > but often the Mantracker captures them.
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > While the Mantracker TV show certainly isn't a SAR incident, there are
many
  > similarities to MSAR in the knowledge and skills applied. For example: 
  > 
  > * Terry Grant will dismount and show the camera what he spotted from
  > the saddle, and explain what it is ... such as toe digs and longer
strides
  > indicating the volunteers are hustling. 
  > 
  > * The vast majority of episodes there is reference to the horse
  > (ears alert and looking) indicating the possible presence of the fleeing
or
  > hiding volunteers ... reinforcing "Look where the horse looks" as a huge
  > tool for MSAR. 
  > 
  > * Commonly the volunteers mention a strategy that includes "a horse
  > can't go here" to determine where they will go to remain un-captured ...
  > which sometimes is correct, and often - much to their dismay - is
incorrect.
  > Some of the terrain on horseback in the various Mantracker episodes will
  > likely surprise most incident management and even some MSAR riders. 
  > 
  > * Mounted trackers (and "fugitives") are out overnight.
  > 
  > * Some of the strategies discussed by the Mantracker can be useful
  > in SAR, particularly if the missing subject appears to be intentionally
  > eluding the riders/searchers.
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > Tracking training often includes a recommendation to stand on a stump or
  > boulder to gain a different angle. The saddled horse becomes a mobile
stump
  > for the rider, and often the best angle is to look further ahead than
you
  > would if standing on the ground. For non-riders to try to get a feel for
the
  > height and angle of view to track from the saddle, try standing on a
chair
  > or sitting on the wall of a pickup truck bed. Look down, then let the
eyes
  > gradually scan out 20 feet or even notably further, depending on the
  > terrain, light, etc. But dismount - as needed - for a closer look. 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
  > 
  > Jorene Downs
  > 
  > SAR, CERT, Emergency Communications
  > 
  > Mounted SAR
  > 
  > http://www.ceoates.com/msar
  > 
  > KJ6JCD 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > <winmail.dat>_______________________________________________
  > MSAR-Riders mailing list
  > MSAR-Riders@lists.ibiblio.org
  > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/msar-riders

  _______________________________________________
  MSAR-Riders mailing list
  MSAR-Riders@lists.ibiblio.org
  http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/msar-riders

  _______________________________________________
  MSAR-Riders mailing list
  MSAR-Riders@lists.ibiblio.org
  http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/msar-riders




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