msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Mounted search and rescue
List archive
- From: "Irvin Lichtenstein " <ilichten1@verizon.net>
- To: <Jorene@CEOates.com>, "'Mounted search and rescue'" <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
- Subject: Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR
- Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 22:27:18 -0800
Much as I would like to agree with Jorene that ASTM standards are accepted
national standards, having helped write them, they are not. Federal
agencies use many sources for descriptive and prescriptive standards.
Instead of writing their own mil-stds today, they use commercial standards
published by other agencies, trade groups, or professional societies.
The fact that FEMA uses many practices described in ASTM F32 series
standards is laudable but does not make them applicable if FEMA is not
paying the bills.
A standard is not mandatory, and therefore not an enforceable standard,
until some government agency that can enforce the rule says it is the rule.
In some cases legislation has been passed that sets a standard of
performance (OSHA, EPA, building codes), or an agency has publicly declared
that it will train to a published practice (NFPA). The courts can always
decide what is best practice during a civil action by defining gross
negligence. Pennsylvania just amended its local government code in 2009 to
require localities to decide whether or not they want fire, EMS, and police
services, the level of service, and how they are going to pay for it. Until
these amendments were passed there was no requirement that a local
government have EMS service and there is no state standard for fire fighting
yet, not even a standardized curriculum.
If there is a legislated level of performance, that is what you have to live
up to. There are laws about listing missing persons within certain time
frames depending on age, mental condition, and whether or not foul play is
suspected but none of them require a response beyond an investigator to
gather the required data for the listing decision.
You must determine what, if any, practices apply to your organization.
Generally, whoever pays the bills sets the rules. If you are not affiliated
with a government agency (what is called an NGO) there may be no regulations
or statutes that establish levels of care or scope of practice for SAR. If
you are part of the Sheriff or some other law enforcement agency there are
state and federal department of justice rules for training, response, etc.
If you part of a fire department or volunteer fire or rescue company
generally NFPA publications are considered best practice.
And remember that these things change as your situation changes and as the
laws change. You may start a mission as a searcher under the Sheriff and
when you find the subject you may become an EMS person by administering
first aid. Or some legislator may be told you are an EMS person from the
beginning of the search and change the law. Lastly, if you adopt a standard
you must live up to it. Standards set levels of expectation, and lawyers
enforce them.
Irv Lichtenstein
Chief of Operations
SE PA SAR
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
www.astm.org
F2209 is the land searcher standard. (NASAR SARtech II level)
F2794 is the basic level MSAR standard, which also requires F2209.
-
[MSAR] Mounted SAR Team responding to a search mission near Lynchburg VA.,
T'mi Finkle, 03/06/2010
- Re: [MSAR] search mission near Lynchburg VA., Una Smith, 03/06/2010
-
Re: [MSAR] Mounted SAR Team responding to a search mission near Lynchburg VA.,
Irvin Lichtenstein , 03/09/2010
- Re: [MSAR] Mounted SAR Team responding to a search mission near Lynchburg VA., T'mi Finkle, 03/09/2010
-
Re: [MSAR] Mounted SAR Team responding to a search missionnear Lynchburg VA.,
E.S., 03/09/2010
- Re: [MSAR] Right and Wrong Methods/Standards, Irvin Lichtenstein , 03/09/2010
-
[MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR,
Una Smith, 03/09/2010
-
Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR,
Jorene Downs, 03/09/2010
-
Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR,
Irvin Lichtenstein , 03/10/2010
- Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR, Jorene Downs, 03/10/2010
-
Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR,
Irvin Lichtenstein , 03/10/2010
-
Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR,
T'mi Finkle, 03/10/2010
-
Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR,
E.S., 03/10/2010
-
Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR,
Irvin Lichtenstein , 03/10/2010
- Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR, Una Smith, 03/10/2010
- Re: [MSAR] training priorities--MSAR, Irvin Lichtenstein , 03/10/2010
- Re: [MSAR] training priorities--MSAR, Una Smith, 03/11/2010
- Re: [MSAR] training priorities--MSAR, Christi, 03/11/2010
- Re: [MSAR] training priorities--MSAR--tracking OJT, Irvin Lichtenstein , 03/12/2010
- Re: [MSAR] training priorities--MSAR--tracking OJT, Una Smith, 03/12/2010
-
Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR,
Irvin Lichtenstein , 03/10/2010
-
Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR,
E.S., 03/10/2010
-
Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR,
Jorene Downs, 03/09/2010
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