Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

msar-riders - Re: [MSAR] Search in King George County VA

msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Mounted search and rescue

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: "T'mi Fi" <tfinkle@erols.com>
  • To: Mounted search and rescue <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [MSAR] Search in King George County VA
  • Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 16:01:52 -0400

Irv - Let me begin my response by saying we are not a VFD (we don't put out fires).  We are an MSAR Squad that responds to search incidents within FEMA Region III and have much different mindset and operational response views towards saving lives associated within this specialized profession.  Other than to perhaps try and discredit our team, I am not sure why you used your "smells and bells" comparison  here on this MSAR list, since we have nothing to do with community/local volunteer fire departments ( then again I've never been good at comparing apples to oranges).  Over the past few years I have traveled across the USA and met numerous MSAR folk, and with the exception of perhaps a mounted patrol stabled within a single park, I do know of one MSAR team that focuses on 10 to 15 minute MSAR response times.

Please recheck your source map, the PAX River NAS borders the Patuxent River and Chesapeake Bay (not the Potomac River) and is over an hour away from the US-301 bridge.  The next largest town from King George County VA east is the town of La Plata, MD, which is 15 minutes away.  I suggest that you recheck deployment protocols and legal requirements for the USGC, military and National Guard resources that you cited, as they can only be deployed as a ground resource at the request of a State Governor on Type I or Type II incidents.  It is extremely rare for a missing search to be classified at anything higher than a Type III incident.   

Since you asked, we have two (2) team members that reside less one an hour from King George County Virginia, via the US-301 Bridge. None of our team members reside within the DC Capital Beltway and all have become experts at avoiding traffic congestion around the DC metro area. Our geographical membership base is about the size equal to that  of  the state of Connecticut.  We have members that live near: Gettysburg PA, Front Royal VA, Charlottesville VA, Marbury MD, Annapolis MD, 30 miles south of York PA (and numerous scattered dots in between, so feel free to connect the dots on any of your maps).  We serve roughly a 24,300 sq. mile response area and have requested by AHJ's to respond to 4 different states (PA, WV, MD, VA) on over 3 dozen search missions within the past five years. However within the past 5 years, because of summer time beach traffic congestion, we did decline to respond to search mission in the Pinelands of southern NJ.  Driving a few hours to a mission is a normal part of our team's response plan.

As a general rule we keep mission response to 6 hours or less of driving time.  Our team officers are ICS 200, 300 and/or 400 certified (two are card carrying IC's), so we maintain strict ICS compliance with regards to operational periods and proper rest periods.   We do not compare our duty cycles to that of truck drivers, we compare them an AHJ's operational period as established by a NIMS/ICS incident action plan, but we never go over a 16/8 work/rest cycle (for a duration of 3 consecutive days, day 4 is all rest).

I remember you saying yesterday that your team has not be on a documented callout since 2005 and is why find your MSAR base camp practices very interesting.  I see what could possibly be a couple of flaws in the process and was wondering when was the last time you actually implemented your team's plan on a mission and how far away did you have to drive for that deployment?  

T'mi
www.trotsar.org

Ms. Tomi` Finkle
Chief
TROTSAR Mounted Team
www.trotsar.org
1-888-MSAR911 (for 24/7 Emergency Dispatch only)
301-412-5249 (cell)
3014125249@txt.att.net (text page)


TROTSAR is a 501(c)3 tax exempt non-profit, all-volunteer, mounted search & rescue squad. Our mission is to assist federal, tribal, state and local government agencies by providing emergency search & rescue operations and/or lifesaving activities for people who are stranded, lost and/or the rescuing victims in wilderness, rural and urban areas within FEMA Region III. Our team is comprised of mission experienced highly skilled mounted first responders.

 IRVIN LICHTENSTEIN wrote:
This is the area south of  the Potomac north of the Chesapeake. East of
Fredricksburg, north of Fort AP Hill, south of the Dahlgren Naval Weapons
Station, and across the peninsula from PAX River NAS at Lexington, MD which
also has a USCG facility.  

The question again arises, how far is too far? Depending on traffic and
exact route the drive from DC or Richmond is probably 90 minutes mostly on
Interstate 95, maybe the same from the Maryland line on 301.  There are
usually large manpower and technology resources available at Fort Hill which
is a National Guard training facility.

At what point is a resource too long away for initial call out as opposed to
being alerted for the second or later operational period? Or are they called
out of their area with the idea that they will be allowed to rest on arrival
and shouldn't be counted on to work effectively for a period of time?

Lastly, this is the equivalent of "smells and bells" in the fire service.
Being cancelled on route or very shortly after the arrival of the first
responder to verify the alarm in person often leads to slowed response,
complacency, and burnout. 

In 2008 the VFC I belong to ran 474 incidents, plus 79 scheduled training
and administrative events as a company. Of those 182 were unfounded
automatic alarms, and another 106 were out of town calls that resulted in no
activity.  The fire company now schedules volunteer crews to cover the first
apparatus on alarm calls so the rest of us can go back to sleep.  In the
fire service the next resource is usually minutes away and cover/standby
assignments may be 10-15 minutes away. In the search arena this may be
hours.

Our practice is to alert other agencies when we are out either on an
emergency or a scheduled service. They know we can't respond to their call
during this period and they may be asked to come to ours or cover us. Based
on an 8 hour operational period we try to plan 1 period ahead and request
resources that far ahead.  This allows about 4 hours of travel or at the
most 200 miles.  The rest of the time is used for unit mobilization, and
getting set up on arrival if needed (corrals, tents, refilling fuel, rest).
The practicality is that we don't want someone to drive 8 hours or more,
work immediately for 8-16 hours, and then drive home.  Besides probably
violating a few labor laws it is the way to kill someone on the way home. 
Compare your duty cycles with those of truck drivers. Driving a rig requires
attention and is limited to 10 hours per day by statute.  Can you, while
excited by the dispatch, load, and then drive 6 hours to a call, get squared
away, and be in the field for hours without a break? And do your job.

Irv Lichtenstein



-----Original Message-----
From: msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of T'mi Fi
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:08 AM
To: msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: [MSAR] Search in King George County VA

FYI:  TROTSAR Mounted Team was deployed again this morning on a 
state-wide callout for missing person in King George County Virginia 
(VDEM mission #54722).  Thankfully the subject was found alive and well 
as MSAR responders were responding.  

T'mi
www.trotsar.org

_______________________________________________
MSAR-Riders mailing list
MSAR-Riders@lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/msar-riders

_______________________________________________
MSAR-Riders mailing list
MSAR-Riders@lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/msar-riders

  




Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page