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Re: [MSAR] Liability

From: Paul Fleming <pfleming@nwlink.com>
To: Mounted search and rescue <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Liability
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:38:49 -0700

Christy,

In Washington state all qualified searchers as well as animals are issued a State Department Of Emergency Management Identification Cards. Our status is the same as state workers while performing our duty and qualifying us for the insurance and benefits associated with that status. It is very good protection and most assuring to know we have it.

Paul Fleming
Training Officer
PMSAR

I'm new to the list as our county is just starting a MSAR group. They will
be a part of our regular county SAR group and thus receive training in all
aspects of SAR. Our sheriff has some concerns with liabilities. In our
state the sheriff of each co. is responsible for all searches. Everyone
called in to aid in a search is covered under workmen's comp, and the county
will usually reimburse or pay for personal equipment that is lost or damaged
during a search. But, now that we are talking the possibility of loosing or
injuring an expensive horse, where does the liability lay, on the horse
owner or the county? I just wanted to get some idea as to how other groups
handle this.

Thanks, Christy in Montana
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Regards
Paul

From tcmatthews0113@msn.com Thu Apr 17 13:54:02 2003

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From: "Thomas and Christy Matthews" <tcmatthews0113@msn.com>
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Subject: [MSAR] liabilty
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Thanks for you answer Tomi. Our Sheriff is responsible for all searches in
our county.
The SAR unit is considered a reserve of the sheriff dept. And as far as I've
been able to find out, the sar dogs are only protected from direct injury by
the victim or someone shooting them when working as long as they have their
ID vests on. We have developed standards for both horse and rider that have
been approved by the sheriff. But accidents happen. Would love to hear from
those
of you that have some type of liability ins. and what type of ins. and who
with.

Thanks, Christy

From una@atlas.lanl.gov Tue Apr 22 17:19:05 2003

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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 15:19:04 -0600
From: Una Smith <una@lanl.gov>
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Subject: [MSAR] Insurance (inc. liability)
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Christy Matthews wrote:

I'm new to the list as our county is just starting a MSAR group. They will
be a part of our regular county SAR group and thus receive training in all
aspects of SAR. Our sheriff has some concerns with liabilities.

Liability insurance protects your personal assets in the event of
a lawsuit against you, due to something you do in the course of a
search. You may need additional liability insurance to cover you
in the event your horse injures someone or their property (eg, it
kicks and dents a vehicle). You may also want insurance to cover
the loss of your horse (mortality) or the loss of the use of your
horse, but this is not liability insurance. Workers' compensation
is not liability insurance either; it provides a fraction of your
income in the event you become injured or disabled and as a result
are unable to work. You may want to buy additional insurance to
further protect your income. Perhaps also life insurance, and
extra medical insurance.

For us, if a horse dies or is injured on a search, it would be our
personal loss. It is possible to buy insurance on the value of the
horse, but those policies are expensive and may be difficult to
use. For instance, most such policies require that a vet examine
the horse before it is put down; if it is injured on a search, to
wait for a vet to arrive might be inhumane.

FWIW, I personally feel no need for additional insurance of any
kind due to my SAR activities. The greater responsibility of a
SAR mission requires greater caution, and greater caution lowers
risks. However, I already carry more insurance than many people
do, including supplemental equine-related liability and medical
insurance (provided by the US Polo Association, but some parts of
the coverage are said to extend to equine activities in general).

Una Smith
Santa Fe County Sheriff's Posse, in New Mexico

From una@atlas.lanl.gov Tue Apr 22 17:25:27 2003

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From: Una Smith <una@lanl.gov>
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Subject: [MSAR] Re: Rough riding in snow
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Chris Pennington wrote:

Anyone else ever out this way be sure to stop and say howdy!

I had a great time riding with Chris and two other members of
her unit near Big Bear Lake, CA. The terrain was steep but the
rocks were soft coarse sandstone (unlike here in New Mexico).
The sandstone wears quickly to form lovely smooth trails with
good traction. Thanks, Chris!

Here are some more thoughts on riding in snow.

My query this April about riding in snow was something I wrote
back in December 2002, that was trapped in sendmail limbo for 4 months. Since then, we have been on a second search in snow.
One horse with rim shoes had no problems with snow balls, one
with flat web shoes had large balls, and one without any shoes
at all also had balls but not as large. The depth of the "cup"
formed by the hoof and sole had a large effect on the size of the balls; a deeper cup gives more purchase for balls to form.
The "trail" was a very slippery track across a steep slope in
a few inches of snow; in some spots, the snow covered ice.
Horses who were inexperienced in such terrain sweated heavily
from nerves, not exertion. At one point, I decided I had to
get off my mare and let her go by herself down a very slippery
slope. It was too dangerous to ride down. From that point we
returned the horses to the base camp and continued our search
on foot. Here it became important that our horses are trained
to tie well enough that they could be tied to the trailers and
left there unattended for many hours.

Riding in snow in pastures or on clear trails is one thing, but
in woods with litter on the ground, it can be dangerous. Just
like people on foot (not skis or showshoes), horses can step in
a trap of fallen branches under the snow, and break a leg.

New Mexico is at lower latitude and higher elevation that much
of the United States, so although we do get deep snow, it tends
to melt quickly, leaving mud. Sometimes the mud has a dry crust
but is many feet deep and soupy beneath the crust. This is
classic "quick sand" and extremely dangerous. Snowmobiles and
snowcats are rare for SAR; ski and snowshoe teams are typical.

Una Smith
Santa Fe County Sheriff's Posse, in New Mexico

[MSAR] Liability, Thomas and Christy Matthews, 04/16/2003
- Re: [MSAR] Liability, Paul Fleming, 04/16/2003