Healthy soil and sustainable growing

["Tradingpost" <tradingpost@lobo.net>]

I can certainly believe your situation there, John. Personally I wouldn't 
even think of getting certified where we are; the cost would bankrupt us. 
However, that other guy was in an ideal market for growing and marketing 
produce. and had money to burn. He started without knowing the business 
(recipe for failure in any business), spent too much money on it, paying 
someone else to do the work because he had no background in farming or 
selling anything, and gave up after just one year. And blamed it all on the 
markets and customers. The definition of a jerk. I know. That's the business 
we're in.

paul tradingpost@lobo.net

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 1/31/2011 at 6:52 PM John D'hondt wrote:

>And there was I just about to say I understood Timmermeister. Long ago we
>tried to make a living from selling vegetables too and it was a failure.
>And
>not because we did not grow very good vegetables. There are many factors
>that you don't have in hand.
>One thing is that there are probably 190 or more certified organic growers
>in West Cork. Just two of those are native Irish the last time I looked.
>All
>the rest are ff'ing foreigners and so you should never expect to seel to
>the
>real Irish locally. I have heard potential customers ask whether the
>vegetables were well sprayed with pesticides so as not to have any chance
>of
>finding some wild life in them. One organic farmer was unlucky that he
>sold
>a broccoli head that had a caterpillar in it and it cost him 14 grand in
>compensation money.
>Most of the customers for organic produce are of German extraction and
>they
>want to be served in German.
>
>And I can also fully understand Timmermeister's experience with trying to
>sell raw milk... if government inspections and rule books are anywhere
>what
>we have over here...you would need to be a masochist to keep walking that
>road and a masochist with very large capital at that. Ceiling in the
>stable
>is 2'' to low you will have to replace it before we rnew your licence.
>Cheese should be kept at 4 C at all times and it is close to 16 degrees
>here. Shelves have to painted in anti bacterial paint or we will close you
>down. Everything else should be stainless steel before you even think of
>selling another pint. You will need to dig a new well 300 feet deeper than
>the one you have now. Your paper work for 12/2/10 is not in order for it
>does not specify how much exactly the cows were fed. An endless list. The
>last time I looked here the rules and regulations book was a few hundred
>pages long and there were inspections every month or more. And every time
>the inspectors come in with dirty feet and want a few gallons of milk and
>maybe 5 kilos of cheese as samples for research for free of course.
>
>I know a lot of organic farmers here and quite a few "do" farmers markets.
>The financially succesful ones cut huge corners for efficiency.
>john
>
>>
>> Anybody writing in Wall Street Journal is guaranteed to be clueless
>about
>> farming, going about it all wrong, and generally full of himself, and
>WSJ
>> will be glad to ridicule living off the land and find someone to do it.
>> The fact he kept the job in Seattle (too good to get his hands dirty)
>> tells me he always paid someone else to do the real work, so surprise -
>> his expenses made it unprofitable. His wife probably sang "I get
>allergic
>> smelling hay..."
>>
>> You're right; his biggest problem was attitude, ridiculing customers, in
>> fact ridiculing the whole idea because he didn't know a shovel from a
>> pitchfork. Nope, tried it and it doesn't work! When in the real world it
>> takes longer than a 4-year degree to learn how to grow and market.
>>
>> paul tradingpost@lobo.net
>>
>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>>
>> On 1/30/2011 at 1:15 AM Simply nonna wrote:
>>
>>>(This is his own bio page)
>>>http://www.kurtwoodfarms.com/kurtwoodfarms/About.html
>>>"Kurt Timmermeister was born in 1962 in the heart of Seattle, no where
>>>near
>>>farm country.  Anticipating working in foreign service, he graduated from
>>>the American College in Paris with a degree in International Affairs.
>>>While
>>>in Paris he realized his love of food and restaurants far surpassed his
>>>affinity for government work and he returned to Seattle to begin a career
>>>in
>>>food service."
>>>
>>>===========
>>>
>>>Let's see-he "bought" 12 acres on an island apparently never having
>>>"farmed"
>>>before ($$$), and I somehow doubt there are any "farmers" in his family.
>>>Yeah,you'll get far in farming with a degree in International Affairs
>from
>>>the American College in Paris. Sounds like his folks had money.He must
>>>really be a "foodie" with an underground cheese cave. Another good PR
>>>piece
>>>for publicity....
>>>I've heard this before ("how hard can growing be-I dun went to college)
>>>First he tried to sell "vegetables" and discovered u actually need to
>find
>>>a
>>>"niche" and maybe even actually know your product. What KIND of tomato is
>>>this?
>>>Of course,good thing he didn't give up his day job as a "cook "(or
>>>dishwasher) and that first foray showed him he needed a "hook" .Doesn't
>>>exactly seem like he's another Mario Batalli.(from Seattle too).
>>>"Early tomatoes cost a lot of $$$$ to grow "(well are u growing them 2B
>>>early or for taste?) If you don't have a good product (or know how to
>>>grow)
>>>people will buy once and never come back. The key is in relationships and
>>>how you treat people.
>>>Was the land even suitable for growing anything or did it have a nice
>>>view?"The farm began as four acres of overgrown blackberry brambles with
>>>rusted out cars and cast off junk hidden beneath the canopy of weeds."
>>>Apparently he complains how "chummy" customers want to be??Excuse me,
>>>that's
>>>called people skills and that negative attitude seems to show his disdain
>>>for the customer-what did u expect that people are going to hand over
>>>money
>>>2U because you're a nice guy or your daddy is "somebody"?There are those
>>>who
>>>only seem to respect abuse or grew up that way.
>>>He then quit dairy because of " the attention I gave to both the state
>and
>>>to my customers"'(Notice a pattern here?) Maybe an attitude
>problem?Sounds
>>>like a spoiled rich kid, ya think?
>>>Then he left his city job as a "chef" and started teaching "foodies" yet
>>>he
>>>has "has little patience for overly precious foodies"Meanwhile he acts
>>>like
>>>the very foodies he reviles by claiming " The American love of olive oil,
>>>he
>>>theorizes, boils down to culture envy."? Envy-sounds like he may be a
>>>little
>>>bitter since he can't grow it and capitalize on the craze. Meanwhile he
>>>ignores all the health benefits of olive oil. Or maybe he doesn't
>>>know:?Sour
>>>grapes...He did live in Paris for many years though.
>>>Serving only "local" is another hook. No man is an island-altho he may
>>>live
>>>on one. This person seems completely absurd. All down through time (when
>>>people had a lot more local availability) they still stocked spices and
>>>other items which were necessary, but weren't locally available.
>>>Sugar,salt,tea,etc became important trading commodities. That doesn't
>mean
>>>they did without, and they couldn't go to their local WallyWorld
>>>ChinaMart.
>>>I'm sure he's sitting back having a banana and a Starbucks trenta latte
>>>,and
>>>abusing those who put up with him,while patting himself on the back for
>>>being so "local". Or maybe it was a hatchet job by WSJ? I'd much rather
>>>hear
>>>him talk about bloat, since he seems to have vast experience in "bloat".
>>>Or
>>>is it gloat? I get rather tired of these publicity pieces that have an
>>>agenda. Kinda like I'm getting tired of all the CSA hype around (since
>>>it's
>>>sign up time).Follow the money.
>>>Thanks for sharing it Ken. A real eye-opener.
>>>
>>>nonna
>>>
>>>On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 8:21 AM, Ken Hargesheimer
>>><minifarms2@yahoo.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>>  The Dismaying Facts of a Farmer's Market
>>>> *
>>
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