Healthy soil and sustainable growing

["henry walden" <henrywalden@lycos.com>]

Howdy Paul happy winter to all on the list,

Ed


http://grassrootsintelligence.blogspot.com/2010/09/book-review-biochar-debate-by-james.html



---------[ Received Mail Content ]----------
Subject : Re: [Livingontheland] the learning curve - charcoal
Date : Wed, 08 Dec 2010 12:47:08 -0700
>From : "Tradingpost" <tradingpost@lobo.net>
To : livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org


With all that�s been written about biochar there should be at least a few 
examples proving increased production. I haven�t found any on the Internet. 

Now it may improve soil texture in sandy soil so that it reduces nutrient 
leaching, but obviously that�s because it�s organic matter, and almost any 
organic matter does the same, moreso if properly composted. If you want to 
sequester carbon save yourself a lot of bother by just working in plant 
matter or cover crop. In fact no-till, organic growing does reduce CO2. But 
on a global scale we can�t cut down all the forests for biochar. 

The Terra Preta soils of the Amazon happen to be volcanic in origin which 
probably explains a lot. 

paul tradingpost@lobo.net 

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** 

On 12/8/2010 at 11:01 AM Marty Kraft wrote: 

>From what i have read about biochar or charcoal is that it has or 
>causes in the soil a high cation exchange capacity. This makes sense 
>because the carbon in charcoal has a valence of four so it has many good 
>sites to hold minerals needed by plants. I've also read that the terra 
>prita or charcoal soils in the Amazon have held their charcoal for 
>thousands of years despite very high rainfall. The charcoal dosen't 
>leach out or degrade appreciably. I would think that it is wise to add 
>charcoal to sandy soils of Florida because it is warm and rainy, at 
>least when i visited. 
> 
>I think a study by Johannes Lehmann found that charcoal added to 
>temperate soils didn't add much if any productivity. However if 
>productivity stays the same and i can sequester carbon by adding it to 
>the soil i will do it. I figure if we can mitigate global warming in 
>this way we humans might survive to garden in the future. 
> 
>The part i don't like about making biochar is the waste of energy when 
>the wood is burned. We need stoves designed to make charcoal AND heat 
>our homes and businesses. That way we can use some of the energy and 
>sequester carbon from a renewable source. I have a fireplace insert 
>stove which provides much of the heat for our home. I keep it stoked so 
>that it keeps the gas furnace from turning on. When the fire box is full 
>of ash so it's hard to add more logs i shovel ash and coals into a metal 
>tub. I quench the coals with the hose so they remain charcoal instead of 
>burning away. I have documated my efforts on youtube at 
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0nfXkcsV2Y 
>On my video you see a difficult charcoal crushing method. Here is a link 
>to plans for a better grinding tool. 
>http://www.appropedia.org/Corn_Cob_Charcoal_Crusher 
> 
>Marty 
> 
>On 12/7/10 11:20 PM, Tradingpost wrote: 
>> I tend to agree with Ken on that. What we're not given is the amounts of 
>"other things" added for three years - what does "in moderation� mean - 
>very little? or amounts added with the charcoal. Without knowing that, 
>there could be a cumulative effect at work to explain yield. We're also 
>not told possible impacts of weather, pests, cultivation, or planting 
>methods. All in all, we have no way of guessing about the reasons for 
>results. 
>> 
>> I have experience with trying to grow in soil too sandy. Soluble 
>nutrients as fertilizer will leach out as fast as you can irrigate, 
>because - soluble nutrients are soluble. It�s useless. Sandy soil can only 
>hold nutrients when enough finished compost amended soil is added. 
>Nutrients are bound with decomposed plant matter in soil. Greensand is 
>said to help along with that. Undigested compost won�t cut it. 
>> 
>> I�m also going to caution readers about using large amounts of hard wood 
>charcoal. The bagged charcoal we can buy locally has dangerous 
>petrochemicals added, and is not intended for food production. 
>> 
>> paul tradingpost@lobo.net 
>> 
>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** 
>> 
>> On 12/7/2010 at 10:56 PM richard green wrote: 
>> 
>>> Once again the yields "did not" increase after adding the other things 
>>> for three years, only after addition of innoculater charcoal did the 
>>> yields increase drastically! What I suspect is that the charcoal holds 
>the 
>>> nitrogen ect. in my sand. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Rick 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 07:17:24 -0800 
>>> From: minifarms2@yahoo.com 
>>> To: livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org 
>>> Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] the learning curve 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The yields increased due to the other things you added; not the 
>charcoal. 
>>> The other things is what soil needs. 
>>> 
>>> Ken Hargesheimer 
>>> 
>>> --- On Mon, 12/6/10, richard green wrote: 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: richard green 
>>> Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] the learning curve 
>>> To: livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org 
>>> Date: Monday, December 6, 2010, 5:23 PM 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I wish to add to the line concerning the use of charcoal, I live in 
>north 
>>> florida and have very sandy soil. In my back yard I have a small 
>vegetable 
>>> garden approx. 1000sqft. that I've had for the past three years. The 
>first 
>>> year the yields were nothing spectacular but good. Use of COF as Steve 
>>> Solomon recommended, also chicken manure and some horse manure used in 
>>> moderation. Leaf and garden clipping compost from a former garden site. 
>>> The second year the production yields were way down both summer and 
>winter 
>>> gardens. The first half of the third year was not good either. I 
>happened 
>>> across several articles concerning charcoal, having nothing to lose I 
>>> tried adding it. I crushed ten forty pound bags of hard wood charcoal I 
>>> soaked the crushed charcoal in a liquid solution of 1 part dry chicken 
>>> manure, 1 part leaf compost and 1 part comfrey tea (the part being a 2lb 
>>> plastic coffee container I use for measurement) I put the dried parts in 
>>> donated panty hose and soaked in 25 gal. of tap water maybe 2 weeks 
>prior 
>>> to use. This being a liquid fertilizer I commonly use. I am now into the 
>>> last month of the third year and the yields thus far have exceeded my 
>>> wildest expectations. I am growing the garden I had wished for. Simply 
>put 
>>> the ground/sand has come alive. Inoculate the charcoal prior to 
>amendment 
>>> to the soil. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Rick 
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________ 
>> Livingontheland mailing list 
>> Livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org 
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/livingontheland 
> 
>_______________________________________________ 
>Livingontheland mailing list 
>Livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org 
>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/livingontheland