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  • From: "henry walden" <henrywalden@lycos.com>
  • To: "Healthy soil and sustainable growing" <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] the learning curve - charcoal
  • Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 00:15:59 -0500 (EST)


Howdy Paul happy winter to all on the list,

Ed


http://grassrootsintelligence.blogspot.com/2010/09/book-review-biochar-debate-by-james.html



---------[ Received Mail Content ]----------
Subject : Re: [Livingontheland] the learning curve - charcoal
Date : Wed, 08 Dec 2010 12:47:08 -0700
>From : "Tradingpost" <tradingpost@lobo.net>
To : livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org


With all that�s been written about biochar there should be at least a few
examples proving increased production. I haven�t found any on the Internet.

Now it may improve soil texture in sandy soil so that it reduces nutrient
leaching, but obviously that�s because it�s organic matter, and almost any
organic matter does the same, moreso if properly composted. If you want to
sequester carbon save yourself a lot of bother by just working in plant
matter or cover crop. In fact no-till, organic growing does reduce CO2. But
on a global scale we can�t cut down all the forests for biochar.

The Terra Preta soils of the Amazon happen to be volcanic in origin which
probably explains a lot.

paul tradingpost@lobo.net

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 12/8/2010 at 11:01 AM Marty Kraft wrote:

>From what i have read about biochar or charcoal is that it has or
>causes in the soil a high cation exchange capacity. This makes sense
>because the carbon in charcoal has a valence of four so it has many good
>sites to hold minerals needed by plants. I've also read that the terra
>prita or charcoal soils in the Amazon have held their charcoal for
>thousands of years despite very high rainfall. The charcoal dosen't
>leach out or degrade appreciably. I would think that it is wise to add
>charcoal to sandy soils of Florida because it is warm and rainy, at
>least when i visited.
>
>I think a study by Johannes Lehmann found that charcoal added to
>temperate soils didn't add much if any productivity. However if
>productivity stays the same and i can sequester carbon by adding it to
>the soil i will do it. I figure if we can mitigate global warming in
>this way we humans might survive to garden in the future.
>
>The part i don't like about making biochar is the waste of energy when
>the wood is burned. We need stoves designed to make charcoal AND heat
>our homes and businesses. That way we can use some of the energy and
>sequester carbon from a renewable source. I have a fireplace insert
>stove which provides much of the heat for our home. I keep it stoked so
>that it keeps the gas furnace from turning on. When the fire box is full
>of ash so it's hard to add more logs i shovel ash and coals into a metal
>tub. I quench the coals with the hose so they remain charcoal instead of
>burning away. I have documated my efforts on youtube at
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0nfXkcsV2Y
>On my video you see a difficult charcoal crushing method. Here is a link
>to plans for a better grinding tool.
>http://www.appropedia.org/Corn_Cob_Charcoal_Crusher
>
>Marty
>
>On 12/7/10 11:20 PM, Tradingpost wrote:
>> I tend to agree with Ken on that. What we're not given is the amounts of
>"other things" added for three years - what does "in moderation� mean -
>very little? or amounts added with the charcoal. Without knowing that,
>there could be a cumulative effect at work to explain yield. We're also
>not told possible impacts of weather, pests, cultivation, or planting
>methods. All in all, we have no way of guessing about the reasons for
>results.
>>
>> I have experience with trying to grow in soil too sandy. Soluble
>nutrients as fertilizer will leach out as fast as you can irrigate,
>because - soluble nutrients are soluble. It�s useless. Sandy soil can only
>hold nutrients when enough finished compost amended soil is added.
>Nutrients are bound with decomposed plant matter in soil. Greensand is
>said to help along with that. Undigested compost won�t cut it.
>>
>> I�m also going to caution readers about using large amounts of hard wood
>charcoal. The bagged charcoal we can buy locally has dangerous
>petrochemicals added, and is not intended for food production.
>>
>> paul tradingpost@lobo.net
>>
>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
>>
>> On 12/7/2010 at 10:56 PM richard green wrote:
>>
>>> Once again the yields "did not" increase after adding the other things
>>> for three years, only after addition of innoculater charcoal did the
>>> yields increase drastically! What I suspect is that the charcoal holds
>the
>>> nitrogen ect. in my sand.
>>>
>>>
>>> Rick
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 07:17:24 -0800
>>> From: minifarms2@yahoo.com
>>> To: livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] the learning curve
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The yields increased due to the other things you added; not the
>charcoal.
>>> The other things is what soil needs.
>>>
>>> Ken Hargesheimer
>>>
>>> --- On Mon, 12/6/10, richard green wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: richard green
>>> Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] the learning curve
>>> To: livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
>>> Date: Monday, December 6, 2010, 5:23 PM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I wish to add to the line concerning the use of charcoal, I live in
>north
>>> florida and have very sandy soil. In my back yard I have a small
>vegetable
>>> garden approx. 1000sqft. that I've had for the past three years. The
>first
>>> year the yields were nothing spectacular but good. Use of COF as Steve
>>> Solomon recommended, also chicken manure and some horse manure used in
>>> moderation. Leaf and garden clipping compost from a former garden site.
>>> The second year the production yields were way down both summer and
>winter
>>> gardens. The first half of the third year was not good either. I
>happened
>>> across several articles concerning charcoal, having nothing to lose I
>>> tried adding it. I crushed ten forty pound bags of hard wood charcoal I
>>> soaked the crushed charcoal in a liquid solution of 1 part dry chicken
>>> manure, 1 part leaf compost and 1 part comfrey tea (the part being a 2lb
>>> plastic coffee container I use for measurement) I put the dried parts in
>>> donated panty hose and soaked in 25 gal. of tap water maybe 2 weeks
>prior
>>> to use. This being a liquid fertilizer I commonly use. I am now into the
>>> last month of the third year and the yields thus far have exceeded my
>>> wildest expectations. I am growing the garden I had wished for. Simply
>put
>>> the ground/sand has come alive. Inoculate the charcoal prior to
>amendment
>>> to the soil.
>>>
>>>
>>> Rick
>>>
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  • Re: [Livingontheland] the learning curve - charcoal, henry walden, 12/13/2010

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