Healthy soil and sustainable growing

["Norma Sutton" <sweetspringfarm@gmail.com>]

Anybody else catch how they spelled ewes?  YEWS!  gee whiz LOL

Norma

 

On 11/26/06, TradingPostPaul <tradingpost@riseup.net> wrote:

'Stephen Decater on Farming without Oil'
http://www.globalpublicmedia.com/transcripts/401


   In Brief: Steven and Gloria Decater farm without oil, opting for draft
horses rather than diesel powered machinery.

Els Cooperrider: Our industrialized farming system depends entirely on gas
and oil, not only to do the actual farming with the machinery, but also for
fertilizers, which are all made with the use of natural gas, and
pesticides, which includes the herbicides, insecticides, fungicides,
rodenticides, that are all also made with petroleum. And then of course
there's transportation. The average distance traveled for the average
grocery item in a supermarket is 1500 miles or more.

As the price of oil goes up, growing food as we have been doing for the
past 60 years or so will become prohibitively expensive. Experts all over
the world, including the U.S. Department of Energy, say that communities
will start having to grow their own food. Growing food without gasoline or
chemical fertilizers will be a challenge for most farmers, who have become
totally dependent on them.

There are farmers, however, who grow their foods and who farm without using
these chemicals or petroleum. Those are organic farmers and we have more
and more of them, especially here in northern California. But even most
organic farmers still use petroleum to power their farm machinery. This is
not so for Stephen and Gloria Decatur. They farm with horses, and have done
so for at least twenty five years on their biodynamic farm in Covelo, which
is in Round Valley of Mendocino County. Welcome Stephen. Why don't you tell
us how you got started farming with horses? How did you think of this? What
made you do this?

Stephen Decatur: Well, my training was with Alan Chadwick in hand
cultivation. It's done with a spade and a fork, which is an excellent way
to do things, but I always had a fascination with muscle power. It all
works with the Sun, which makes it all the more fascinating. In 1980 we
were able to get started with some draft horses and we've been working our
farm since then, using them for most of our work. It's been 25 years now.

EC: People have been working with draft horses for at least a thousand
years, but in today's society, at least in industrialized nations, this is
a very uncommon occurrence. How did you select your horses? What were you
looking for? What is a draft horse? How are they trained? How do you work
with them?

SD: They're actually descended from the great horses in Europe that were
used for carrying knights, so they've been bred to have heavier bones, to
have heavier muscling, to have a little cooler temperament, and to have the
ability to endure. The various breeds in Europe were developed and have
been carried on into the present time. All farming was draft horse powered
until about 1910, when machine power came in, so all of agriculture was
solar powered until that point. Mechanized farming is really a recent
occurrence.

EC: When it comes to using draft horses to do your farming, do you use
different horses for different tasks? Would you use one breed for plowing,
and another breed for other farming chores, or can one draft horse do it
all?

SD: Well, one draft horse can do it all, whether they're pure draft horses
or mixed horses. In pioneer days, a lot of people used what were called
grade horses, which were part draft and part light horse, such as Morgan.
We have one horse here who's three quarters Brighton and one quarter
Quarter horse, and he's a great horse.

EC: What is the color of that horse?

SD: Oh, he's black, with a reddish highlight that's really beautiful. The
Amish communities used the standard breds for transportation. They're
faster, they're pretty good sized and well muscled. They're also used for
harness reasons. There's a really wide range of different breeds. In
England, they specialized at one point in the Shire horse, which was a
transport horse which was tall and leggy, kind of like the Clydesdale in
Scotland, and then they developed the Suffix, which was an agricultural
horse. They're a little lower to the ground and easier to harness. When
you've got six or eight to harness it's really a project.

EC: Could you describe the difference in height, weight, and disposition of
the riding horses people are used to and the draft horse?

SD: I don't have any riding horses, so I'm not completely familiar with
them, but I think that riding horses are generally 900 to 1,200 pound
animals for while a draft animal is about 1,400 to 2,000 pounds. They're
bigger animals, and when you're pulling equipment it's weight and motion
that you need to draw that equipment though the soil. You could do the same
work with lighter horses, but you'd need three. And then there are dual
purpose horses. The Morgan horse, for instance, is used for transportation
and for farm work.

EC: What's the disposition of the draft horse?

SD: They've been bred to be more stable and not as quick to be frighten or
panic like a hot blooded horse would be. Their emotions are slower and it
takes something a little more exciting to get them frightened, and that's
what you want, because when you've got equipment and noises you don't want
a horse that'll spook easily. You could use horses that are more reactive,
but only if they're well trained.

EC: A 2,000 pound horse must have to eat a lot.

SD: Yeah.

EC: And where does the food come from? Do you grow the food for your own
horses?

SD: We have four workhorses, a 40 acre farm, and we also have six cows, ten
yews and a complement of livestock to feed from the farm. We are growing
some of the horses' feed, but not all of it at this time, because we don't
necessarily have the land base, although we could use a little bit more
area. It's also more related to people and skills, so some years we grow
more of the horses' feed, some years less. If we're able to graze them for
part of the year, we can cut down on the feed we would need.

EC: When you turn them out at night after a day of work, how much pasture
do you have for them to roam around in? Or do you keep them in a stall?

SD: We turn them into a corral at night, so they're not grazing at night,
except in certain periods of the year. Then, we would turn them into the
fields. Our 40 acre farm is divided into more or less four acre fields, so
they would go in one of those if we were able to graze them.

EC: Where do you get harness equipment? People haven't been doing that,
like you said, since 1910, at least in this country. Is there someone who
specializes in this equipment? Do you have to make some of it yourself? How
do you do this?

SD: Well, yeah, there are actually people all over the United States who
are still using draft horses. People scattered here and there, and then
there are some people in groups. Yeah, there are quite a few groups. In
Amish communities there are a great many harness makers, and you can buy
draft harnesses brand new, ready made, ready to go.

You can find a used harness at an auction. There are draft horse equipment
and draft horse auctions. There's one in April in Sisters, Oregon put on by
the Small Farmer's Journal, and that's the largest one on the West Coast. A
lot of times in those auctions you're finding equipment that was originally
made for horses. It's been collected up and brought to the auctions and
then it goes back out to the people who are using the horses.

There are also many manufacturers of pioneer equipment in Ohio who make
brand new plows, harrows, carts, parts, all kinds of equipment. A good
resource for finding all of these things would be the Small Farmer's
Journal in Junction City, Oregon. Also, a good reference book is available
from Lynn Miller, who's the editor of the Small Farmer's Journal, and it's
called The Workhorse Handbook. It covers the whole picture quite well. He
also has a book, Training Teamsters, which gives you some pointers for
working with horses.

The ideal situation would be to work with somebody who already has
experience, because horses are animals and they can do things suddenly. If
you're not expecting it and don't really know what to expect you can find
yourself in a pretty serious situation.

EC: And you're one of those people. A very interesting thing about the Live
Power Farm, right here in Round Valley in Covelo, is that Stephen and
Gloria have a CSA, a community-supported agriculture project. They are
growing food for people who subscribe to their farm ahead of time before
the season starts.

What is the best place for people to call to subscribe to this
bio-dynamically grown food, grown without the use of petroleum. What is the
best way for them to get in touch with you?

SD: That would probably be Gloria, at (707) 983-8196

EC: This incredible farm, which I visited for the first time roughly 14
years ago, has a few positions open for apprentices. If there's someone out
there listening who has never farmed without petroleum and would like to
learn how to farm with horses and see how such an operation works from the
experts, from people who've been doing this for 25 years, you can call the
same number and see if you can get an application to be an apprentice at
this totally incredible farm in Covelo. If I were thirty years younger, I'd
call today and learn how to do this.

SD: It would be good to work with people who are from the county, because
hopefully we can start to create more community farms in our county, and
people will need the skills to do this.

EC: Absolutely. Do you know of anyone else in Mendocino County who is
farming with horses the way you do?

SD: I don't.

EC: And you'll be able to provide anyone who calls with more information.
This September 4th, which is Labor Day weekend, you will have a farm tour
for anyone interested if they sign up for the Pure Mendocino campaign, is
that correct? I know you and Gloria have agreed to give people a tour of
your farm that Sunday and I know many people are looking forward to that.

SD: I don't know that I'm aware of this. Gloria may be aware of this.

EC: Stephen, I did a show a few months ago with Agricultural Commissioner
Dave Bengston from here in Mendocino County and someone called into that
program and said that farming with horses wouldn't be a good way to go
because each horse would need thirteen acres of rangeland in order to
survive. Would you like to address that issue? I think a lot of people
might wonder if this is a viable alternative to petroleum.

SD: Maybe rangeland would be towards that, although that figure sounds real
high to me. On arable valley land five acres would be more in the ballpark.
We're talking six, seven tons of hay a year and maybe a thousand pounds of
grain per horse. I think it's very definitely reasonable.

The fertilizer is coming from the farm, from the livestock, the draft
horses, the cows, the sheep, and the chickens. We're covering the bases
there, and we're trying to cover the bases with the horses as far as soil
tillage. We've got 13 kilowatts of photovoltaic energy that we're using for
water pumping and other electrical uses at this point.

I did some calculations, and if we're providing 300 people part of their
food needs on 40 acres, then it'll take about 266 40 acre farms or 10,000
acres to feed 40,000 people. If we look at that as being a third or even
half of peoples' food. There are about 70,000 acres in Mendocino County.

If we're talking 10,000 acres for part of peoples' food supply, and that
includes feeding the complementary livestock, we've got potential. It
should be a real possibility. I think one of the bigger hurdles is creating
these farms and getting farms on the ground that are producing and
recreating the local food system. I think the key here would be the concept
of a community based farm. A group of people go together with the farmer
realizing they have a common purpose, work together as partners, and meet
the operating budget of a farm so that the farm can operate and stay
stable. The people are actually supporting the operation of a farm, and if
that's done well they'll all get an equal share in the food. They're not
buying food, they're supporting the operation of a farm. This is creating a
completely different economic system and a totally different economic
relationship.

In our case, this money is based on about 150-160 different households and
that's supporting the operation of this 40 acre farm. There are generally
five people working with us besides our family, which is Gloria and I and
our three sons. A group of 150 to 160 households could create the economic
base. This actually creates a different kind of economic relationship. This
is a non-market economy that's going on, and our farm is an example of
that, because money to operate our farm is coming in, food is going out,
but none of it is going through the market system, and that's a conscious
choice.

EC: I have just a few more questions for you. Given that we are going to
see a prohibitive rise in the cost of food as the petroleum supplies become
prohibitively expensive, what would you and Gloria possibly change as far
as what you grow on the farm so that you can provide the maximum calories
for the people who subscribe to your farm?

SD: This decision of course would be a community decision based on
everybody's needs. It also would be affected by what can be grown in the
area, what really succeeds and is productive. You basically want to adapt
to different food sources that you can produce to create the sustenance
that you need for the community. Many of the vegetables that we grow would
be utilized, as would the grain. We're been doing about two acres of grain
for the last three years. Bread is also a possibility. I haven't been able
to think about how we would totally alter that, but it depends a lot on
what really will produce well and what supports people in their lives.
Vegetables are a critical part in the diet, and I can say that they would
be a critical aspect.

Grain, fruit, and animals are able to utilize food sources that we can't
eat directly. We also need them in the farm organism for their fertility
abilities. They are, in a way, a storage process, and I would imagine
people would also want to begin storing some of their food. There are
things like cabbage that could be lacto-fermented or root crops that could
be lacto-fermented and stored. I could imagine that we might want to plan
our vegetable production to meet some of those needs more fully than we do
now as people begin to develop the capacity to store food and preserve
food. We would alter the planting plan to meet that.

EC: That's great information. I am going to open up the phone lines. Hello
caller, you're on the air.

Caller: I was wondering if your guest can talk about what he thinks about
the use of oxen or the male bull for pulling heavy loads, plowing, and
getting the harvest.

SD: Oxen are a good alternative. They're very inexpensive. You can make a
yoke, in fact we did it out of a piece of ash and they can certainly do
fairly heavy work and they would be good for the heavier plowing and
disking and so on. On the other hand, they aren't as easy to direct as
horses are, maybe not as agile and adept at cultivating weeds or corn rows.
Oxen might be a little cumbersome.

EC: Oxen were used in Mendocino County for many years in logging operations
and of course that was pretty tricky work, I'm sure. Another thing that I
would like to mention is that there is a farmer, a rancher in Mendocino
County who grows Romeo cattle. The Romeo cattle breed were the primary
breed that were used for oxen in Europe, and there's actually a source
right here in Mendocino county.

Caller 2: I wonder if your guest would comment on the draft horses'
personalities and incidents that indicate that the animal is working with
you and not under you.

SD: One experience that I can relate is a situation where we have a field
ready to plant, say with grain, and the rainstorm is about to hit, and we
need to move faster. The horses can actually pick up on that energy, and
all of a sudden, you've got teams working with you to accomplish that task
and it's a totally different experience than with tractor equipment. So
they definitely do respond to respect and care. You know, one of the adages
on horse farming is that if you want your horses to work hard you don't do
it by forcing them to, you do it by addressing their feed box. I think
maybe that's the approach to take to make sure that they are well fed and
comfortable and then they are going to work with you.

Caller 3: What was the date of that farm tour you spoke of earlier?

EC: I feel kind of bad that I sprung it on Stephen who maybe didn't know
about it yet, but in any case this farm tour is supposed to be happening on
September 4th, which is Labor Day weekend. It's a Sunday, and I will be
announcing that in subsequent shows after we've talked to Stephen and
Gloria to make sure that this has all been arranged. It's part of Pure
Mendocino, which highlights certified organic farms, and some of the
proceeds from this two day event will go to the Mendocino County Cancer
Resource Center.

Caller 3: I'd also like to ask Stephen what he grows. I've been trying to
imagine how you can get horses and cows down rows of vegetables. That's why
I want to go on the farm tour.

SD: We grow most vegetables except celery. It doesn't like the heat. It's a
coastal vegetable. You name it, we probably grow it. As far as beans and
rows, our garden is actually split between things we grow in beds and
things we grow in rows. For things that can be planted more closely like
spinach, lettuce, carrots, and beets we can get four rows on a 36 inch bed.
We set up the ground, put out the compost, and form the beds all with the
horses. We then go to a more hands on approach with transplanting or
drilling seeds with a push drill. That's a pretty effective way to
concentrate fertilization and water on a smaller area and also obtain
pretty high yields from an area.

Some plants like corn, winter squash, potatoes, and broccoli need more
space, so we put them in rows, 30 inches apart. That's about the minimum.
Most horse tillage would use a 36-inch row, but our equipment works with
30. You have to keep a good eye on those horses and where they put their
feet, but you can cultivate 30 inch rows of beans, corn, or whatever you
wanted to grow that way.

Caller 4: I have two questions. I was just wondering if the law in Iraq
stopping people from keeping their seeds existed here, would that cause
your farm a problem? And my other question is, do you think people are born
with the right to possess seeds and grow plants?

SD: The seeds are a gift of creation to all of us and we ought to all have
equal rights and nobody has the right to control them. They are a gift, as
is our land, as is our work, our labor and our strength. We're at a point
in our history where we need to learn how to share. That's our future. If
we can learn that then we have a future. In our case, I would continue
growing. You can take seeds in your own place. Most of these things come
into difficulties when you're trying to make them into something commercial
and you're trying to ship them or move them. That's the case with milk. In
a community farm, for instance, people could choose to own the cow and pay
the budget of the farmers to take care of it.

Caller 5: How are your horses on the land, and how much land do you need to
make it sustainable? Is this really something that's sustainable for other
people to do on a small scale in more places?

SD: I think that we can take a pointer from Amish communities where
typically the farms are 40, 80, or maybe 120 acres. That's the scale that
works with around four work horses, maybe six, or four and a driving horse.
I think you have to adapt your management of the horses to the particular
situation.

In our situation, we have wet soil in the winter and in the spring, and the
valley ground can get totally damaged. Horses are big and heavy and can
really do damage if you let them out in the wet ground, and the same is
true of cattle. Here, the approach is to keep them corralled in the winter,
and then grow the feed on soil that is kept healthy and not damaged, and
bring it to the animals so that they are taken care of. I think that that
approach can certainly be adapted of course.

For instance, before this rainstorm previous to the one we're in now, we
were actually able to do tillage in the field with the horses so we set up
our lettuce and our spinach and our carrots. We got our beds planted in
that little window of about two and half weeks where it finally cleared up
and the ground dried. If we took a tractor out in that field, we'd probably
be digging it out of the ground.

It's judicial in the way that you use your animals and as a farmer you
never, ever want to go in and plow or work wet soil because you bruise it
and you lose the air. It takes years to recover that soil. I think that
there is a certain scale that you need for utilizing horses. You could work
with one horse on maybe a 20 acre operation. What we really need to do is
address creating 40 or maybe 80 acre scale farms.

Caller 6: I haven't heard you mention the transportation of the produce
from the farm to the people and the cost of that and how that would work
from a remote area like Covelo if the cost becomes much higher for the oil.

SD: That's definitely a transition that we're going to have to face. We
started with 15 families in the San Francisco bay area 18 years ago because
people there were ready to work with a farm to get their food. Locally,
there was not that much support or understanding of what the goal was. We
ended up with a sort of split constituency. Now it's about two thirds of
our people in the bay area and the other third here in Mendocino County. We
recognize that there may need to be a transition and I think in the shorter
term hopefully we can at least address Mendocino County. Ultimately, it may
be a matter of Covelo.

I actually have been researching methane, but it's not power dense enough
for transport fuel. I've been trying to find out about hydrogen, since we
have photovoltaic, if we could do some kind of storage that would allow us
to do a limited local transport. That's possible, maybe. I don't know, I
haven't got to the end of that research yet.

EC: Maybe you could help people in the Ukiah area of the county establish
these types of farms. Your expertise is going to be needed.

SD: Absolutely, to create community based farms. In that regard, there's a
couple of very critical factors. One is, as I was talking about, starting
to operate them from a non-market economy viewpoint, where people are
working as an association and they're working cooperatively, using their
money to support the operation of the farm so that they can be supporting
each other, supporting the farmer and the farmer supporting the community.
That's the approach we'll have to take.

The other key, because let's face it, the non-market hasn't taken care of
farmers. There's nobody out there now. It's because it doesn't work. It
takes people to the bottom line. You can't let a living system, our life,
be governed by the bottom line. You have to form the economy on more human
principles where we recognize that we're in relationship with each other
and we use the money to support that relationship, rather than thinking the
producer's on one end off somewhere invisible, and the producer's trying to
get enough to survive, and the consumer's coming from the other end, with
"Well, we'll support it, but the thing has to be the cheapest." It's too
narrow a conception to really work. It hasn't taken care of the Earth, it
hasn't taken care of the farmers, we don't have generations coming up that
want to farm. We need to start from the other end and say in order to have
a sustainable food system we need to take care of the Earth, we need to
recognize the Earth as a living being, recognize the farmer and the
workers, and recognize the needs of the community. Whatever it takes to
produce the food and meet the needs of all of those parties, that is the
real cost of food.



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