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[Tim Oppenheim <timopp AT gmail.com>]

Tell us a little about your rotational grazing. Is that Salatin style? Are 
you doing companion grazing?

I just watched a documentary called Farmageddon. Did anyone catch that? It 
was more along the lines of raw milk, but mainly talked about some egregious 
enforcement by the Dept of Agriculture and others. Any of our group had 
problems like that?

Tim
On Jan 6, 2013, at 6:09 PM, William Russell <woodmanrussell AT gmail.com> wrote:

> You sound like you have a good program going. All I use is free choice, not
> block salt,with Selenium, short in Michigan soils, as you will have some
> cows that keep others away. I also use salt for a neat way to seed
> pastures. Using intensive rotational grazing, if done correctly, will allow
> you to run about 30% more head on the same acreage.
> 
> On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 4:55 PM, <franksfarm AT aol.com> wrote:
> 
>> Good day all:
>> 
>> 
>> William, thanks for the info.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Seems that there are so many factor involved in finishing beef that it's
>> hard to get consistency.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Obviously what they eat is probably the most important factor, but then
>> there's genetics,quality of pasture, the weather, the marbling potential,
>> the age at slaughter, the optimum hanging time, even the temperatures in
>> the cooler etc. etc. etc.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Most of the relatively few animals I've slaughtered were in Yield Grade 1,
>> and were very lean. I once read that the optimum hanging times was 23 days,
>> but even at 21 days the meat was drier ,less tender.
>> 
>> 
>> Most of the custom slaughter houses around shoot for 14 days. Seldom
>> longer since they need the space.
>> 
>> 
>> Like to hear more about the group's experiences finishing grass fed beef.
>> 
>> 
>> You also mentioned finishing/pasturing on alfalfa: that packs a lot more
>> protein in the feed. I wonder if that too makes a big difference.
>> 
>> 
>> I don't pamper my grass fed beef . I do provide a mineral program, some
>> soybean hulls, and corn gluten meal in winter, and they have plenty of
>> shade and water, and I'm with then a lot so they are quite gentle.
>> 
>> 
>> I selected for high marbling EPD's in my herd foundation among others.
>> 
>> 
>> Look forward to your replies.  Frank in KY -----Original Message-----
>> From: homestead-request <homestead-request AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>> To: homestead <homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Sent: Sun, Jan 6, 2013 12:01 pm
>> Subject: Homestead Digest, Vol 93, Issue 7
>> 
>> 
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>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>   1. Re: Homestead Digest, Vol 93, Issue 5 (William Russell)
>>   2. Re: Homestead Digest, Vol 93, Issue 5 (lurine AT com-pair.net)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 21:22:47 -0500
>> From: William Russell <woodmanrussell AT gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Homestead] Homestead Digest, Vol 93, Issue 5
>> To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
>> Message-ID:
>>        <
>> CAKZtsm_Rzh9Zb1-3FPrUA2b_8O3gct7fZMSN1+GuZZjJeHYUyA AT mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> 
>> Grass or Corn makes no difference, the animal has to start
>> depositing intramuscular fat in order for it to become more tender& higher
>> grade. I have told my beef customers, since the 80's that a young beef is
>> like a teenager, they build body first then start to put on the fat that
>> the meat inspector/grader looks for.After raising at least 5 different
>> breeds & finishing some on grain & some on grass, they can all be tender if
>> finished properly . My last breed has been the Scot Hilander breed & they
>> have been the best. They were raised totally on 10 year old Alfalfa fields,
>> intensive rotational grazed, which I believe  is the only way to raise
>> cattle that will preform at their best. Those cattle finished out at 1000#
>> live weight & about 1/2'" of back fat. Also I have my meat hung for 12 days
>> in the cooler at the slaughter house before finishing, which has been shown
>> to be the optimum time for enzyme breakdown of tissue. My customers & my
>> wife have raved about how good this meat is & that it really turns out
>> (fork tender)!!
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 1:53 PM, <lurine AT com-pair.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> Depends on your grass.  Back in the day, when we had our butcher
>>> shop, our steers grade choice straight off grass.  We seeded orchard
>>> grass, perrenial rye, wild oat, bur clover and another grass I don't
>>> remember.  Now, they were dairy calves but the guy used Hereford
>>> bulls.  We also ran some Holstein cows and had our own horned
>>> Hereford bull (Sir Redwood Reginald III, where do people get these
>>> names <g>).
>>> 
>>> We sold almost all the steers out of our butcher shop (cut out the
>>> middle man) but would occasionally sell one privately.  I always
>>> required 50% upfront with no refunds, so the non-serious or inclined
>>> to change their minds folks didn't even bother.
>>> 
>>> Lynda
>>> 
>>> ---- Original Message ----
>>> From: franksfarm AT aol.com
>>> 
>>>> Re Grass Fed Beef
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Rob:)
>>>> 
>>>> That's one of the real dangers: Customers canceling at last minute!
>>>> Happened to me ,too, and I had little room in my freezer. Several
>>>> hundred lbs of beef take up a lot of space.
>>>> 
>>>> Folks don't realize just how long, and how much you have in that
>>>> beef.
>>>> 
>>>> You need to educate your customers, and get FIRM, non cancelable
>>>> orders.
>>>> 
>>>> Even at $3.25 margins are not that great. With bottle calves you do
>>>> have much lower costs than most grass fed beef producers.
>>>> 
>>>> Also from my experience grass fed beef needs to be cooked more
>>>> slowly, and with moisture -else it seems a bit tougher. My Angus
>>>> cattle tend to be in Yield Grade # 1 because they are so lean. So
>>>> it's healthier for you.
>>>> 
>>>> I'm hoping to sell directly to a larger outfit at a premium price
>>>> since it's hard to scale up in a rural area. Selling a handful of
>>>> animals a year is not much of a business. Frank in KY -----Original
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 22:40:28 -0800
>> From: lurine AT com-pair.net
>> Subject: Re: [Homestead] Homestead Digest, Vol 93, Issue 5
>> To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
>> Message-ID: <380-2201310664028920 AT com-pair.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>> 
>> Breeds make a difference and the pasture will also make a difference.
>> If you have breed, such as dairy, you are going to have less marbling
>> simply because that is the way those animals muscle up.  You could
>> stick a buck or a doe in a shed and feed them corn till the cows come
>> home and you wouldn't get enough marbling to grade anything but
>> utility.
>> 
>> Scottish Highlanders are extremely "thrifty" and will pack on a good
>> ratio of marbling and back fat on a lot less feed than say a
>> Holstein.  Highlanders pack on the fat and marbeling equally
>> throughout their bodies.  Holsteins will put it on piecemeal.  So, on
>> less feed you'll get a better grade out of a Highlander.
>> 
>> Dry aging is optimum.  This new business of "wet" aging (sticking it
>> in kryovac bags and sitting it on a shelf) is, well, IMNSHO,
>> disgusting!  The amount of time you age your beef for depends on a
>> lot of things including just how much fat there is on the quarters.
>> A hind can hang longer than a front.
>> 
>> For our butcher shop we would hang the sides we sold in the shop
>> about two weeks.  Then we would break the hind down and for some
>> customers leave the loin to hang another week.
>> 
>> We had a lot of dairies bring in older cows.  These old girls hung
>> about a week to 10 days.  Very little cover fat but because they came
>> from old-fashioned dairies (irrigated pasture, little stress) they
>> produced some real nice meat.
>> 
>> Feed, breed, how they are raised all have input in what the output is.
>> 
>> Lynda
>> 
>> ---- Original Message ----
>> From: woodmanrussell AT gmail.com
>> 
>>> Grass or Corn makes no difference, the animal has to start
>>> depositing intramuscular fat in order for it to become more tender&
>>> higher
>>> grade. I have told my beef customers, since the 80's that a young
>>> beef is
>>> like a teenager, they build body first then start to put on the fat
>>> that
>>> the meat inspector/grader looks for.After raising at least 5
>>> different
>>> breeds & finishing some on grain & some on grass, they can all be
>>> tender if
>>> finished properly . My last breed has been the Scot Hilander breed &
>>> they
>>> have been the best. They were raised totally on 10 year old Alfalfa
>>> fields,
>>> intensive rotational grazed, which I believe  is the only way to
>>> raise
>>> cattle that will preform at their best. Those cattle finished out at
>>> 1000#
>>> live weight & about 1/2'" of back fat. Also I have my meat hung for
>>> 12 days
>>> in the cooler at the slaughter house before finishing, which has been
>>> shown
>>> to be the optimum time for enzyme breakdown of tissue. My customers &
>>> my
>>> wife have raved about how good this meat is & that it really turns
>>> out
>>> (fork tender)!!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
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>> 
>> End of Homestead Digest, Vol 93, Issue 7
>> ****************************************
>> 
>> 
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>> 
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