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  • From: "Lynn Wigglesworth" <lynnw1366 AT hotmail.com>
  • To: <homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [Homestead] Let's Hash This Out..
  • Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 08:01:57 -0400

Bev; I agree with Lynda that patriotism ISN'T "my country right or wrong".I admire the ideals the country is based on, so I guess that's why I like people like Ron Paul...I'd hoped that Obama, with his strong background in the Constitution, would try to get back to it (he seems to have missed most of the important points of the Constitution). I respect people who deserve respect (but I don't bad mouth or name-call those I don't respect). I think we should always hold our leaders to a highter standard, and boy have a LOT of them not lived up to even the lowest standards of behavior! I had hopes that Obama would be different, it amuses me that his personal staff often don't have a clue how to run the White House, and end up doing some pretty dumb classless stuff (the Ipod to the Queen, US-format DVDs to Prime Minister, etc)...it's like someone let the teenagers run the store while mom and dad were out. Obama has not been the 'change' that he promised, even with Congree on his side. I'm not into conspiracy theories, but there are far bigger powers than the President in this country.

I think a lot of us have come to realize that whatever decisions WE make about healthcare, or torture, or any other topic, don't matter much. Repubs/Dems...hasn't made much difference...I believe that they have all governed only to benefit their friends and supporters, regardless of how it affects the rest of us. There isn't much I can do about it except remove myself as much as possible from 'the system' and not become involved in anything I find repugnant (unnecessary wars, for example, and most are unnecessary). Our beliefs, or mine at least, don't influence the government at all...I haven't voted for a main party presidential candidate in many elections, and, as I've been told, voting 3rd party is 'throwing away' my vote.

I also agree with Jeanne that we can only affect change at a personal level. The only thing we control is our own actions. So I vote my conscience, try to make my little corner of the world better, and do what I can to avoid the flying debris from Washington.

Lynn Wigglesworth
Tioga Co. PA

----- Original Message ----- From: "EarthNSky" <erthnsky AT bellsouth.net>
To: "Homestead List" <homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 12:51 AM
Subject: [Homestead] Let's Hash This Out..


I wrote the post about Democrats the other day hoping that someone would
respond to my questions. When I ask what Obama accomplishment I can be
proud of, I'm seriously asking-it's not a rhetorical or smug question.
I try to always see the silver lining. I try to see the best in people.
I *try* to find the good. I am patriotic, as you know, moreso
apparently than a lot of you judging from past conversations, and I have
respect for ANY US president, including President Obama, because the
will of the majority placed them in office, and I have to abide by that.
That is part of what patriotism means to me, to be supportive of our
country's leadership whether we have a Bush-like president or an
Obama-like president. Patriotism, among other things, also means that
I should be critical, and ever-vigilant to watch for abuses of power.
Like Lynda said, it was easy with Bush, who wasn't polished at all, but
with Obama, you really have to watch and pay attention.

President Obama is still hugely popular and I know many of you admire
him, so I am trying to understand that and see whether or not you
have any disappointment or questions about how his Presidency is going.
I'm sure there are things he has done that are good. I'm sure there is
good. I cheered when he announced he would close the camps at Gitmo,
but that hasn't happened and is now unlikely to happen anytime soon. He
made so many promises, surely he has kept one or two so far?

When we talk about things like this, I learn so much from you guys.
Positive things happen when there is lively debate on this list. I grow
as a person. I consider myself a lifetime learner and this list has,
for the last 15 years, fed my need to educate myself. I was never
interested in politics or economics before I came here. I've been here
15 years and deleted those kind of posts for the first 7 years. Slowly,
I've become more interested. There was a time when I thought it would
all be irrelevant in a few years time. I don't think that way anymore.
Now, the power plays and relationships intrigue me. I like trying to
guess what will happen next, like who will win and be sole Survivor. :)

I've been wondering why no one is talking about the implications of
President Obama's appointments and how that might affect change. Our
country's founding fathers envisioned our system to be one where there
would be an exchange of ideas and hearty, vigorous, impassioned debate
about those ideas, even if the debate became raw or ugly, like it
sometimes does here. I just wish we could stop the mischaracterization,
the hyperbole, the throwing out the baby with the bathwater, and the
inflammatory slander. Perhaps we could start by agreeing to respect the
current AND former Presidents and staff, regardless of our personal
feelings as to their character. We could omit the name calling and
nicknames and be more distinct in our blame than just naming the
president in office at the time. If the problem is the CIA, then we say
the CIA under the first President Bush, or the CIA during President
Obama's Administration or the FBI under Reno's helm, etc. Perhaps we
need to eliminate the broad characterizations and be more specific. To
label all Conservatives as the Religious Right would be inaccurate. To
label all Liberals who support President Obama's healthcare plan as
Socialists or Communists or whatever is also unfair. Likewise, all those
who supported Bush are not Fascist. We are mature, intelligent adults
and I think we can talk about things like this....I WANT to talk about
things like this...I would LOVE to see a serious, non-conspiracy minded
discussion about the possible influence of people like Frank Davis on
our President. Assuming there is influence at all, is it a good thing
or a bad thing? I like to learn about cause and effect. I just read
this article
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/28/senate-president-emergency-control-internet/?test=latestnews
and I am trying to figure out how this can be a good thing. Where is the
ACLU on this? There are all kinds of stories that I would like to see
discussed here.

The other day, on Facebook, Lee posted a satirical link that well, I
don't know how to describe it, but it was about Socialist Fire
Departments-playing off the Socialist Healthcare fearmongering. (and
Lee, I'm assuming that if you don't want me to air this, you will edit
this out of my post) It was quite funny and ingenious, making the point
opposite of the way I feel on the matter. I laughed about it with her
and told her that I am quite proud that I have a very, very diverse
group of Facebook friends and real life friends. When someone whom I
respect, like Lee, posts something like this, it gives me pause to think
that perhaps I have missed something on this issue. I read opposing
views with the hope that I learn something that either forms, challenges
or reinforces my own belief. I am definitely not set in my ways, just
at a point in my life that I am starting to pay more attention and
really attempt to make a stand on things like torture or healthcare, IF
I can gather enough information to make a decision. I've always relied
on this list for that.

Bev

--
Sleep well tonight, for somewhere in the ocean's depths, MY son is
protecting your freedom on the USS Key West, currently deployed
somewhere in the Pacific and/or Indian Ocean. Go Navy!
EarthNSky Farm, NW Georgia, USA

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