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[Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>]

<<<"Raising taxes is counterproductive for two reasons: it can cause social 
unrest and it takes money out of people’s pockets who would otherwise be 
“aiding” the economy by purchasing things.">>>
 
Ok, well obviously, this means the government will print the money out of 
thin air.... again to the monetary inflation argument.
 


<<<<"However, there is a class of people whom this does not apply to: the 
very wealthy. By taxing them instead, money will not be taken out of the 
economy since it lays idle in banks (especially since they’ve temporarily 
stopped gambling in the stock market). Also, there can be no fear of social 
unrest when this group is taxed, since they constitute a very, very small 
section of society.">>>>
 
Hmm, in/after the depression the gov't raised income taxes to 62%, Obama has 
already mentioned 60%.  The very wealthy aren't that big of a percentage, 
raising their taxes isn't going to make much of a dent in the $200 Billion 
and growing state budgets deficits.  (Somewhere I read that at one point in 
history we were at nearly 90+% income tax.)
 
 
The government of course caused all this suffering.... they made promise 
after promise after promise to millions and millions of people who because 
dependent, not realizing there was truly no funding for all of the social 
programs.  This caused a lot of people to make decisions that did not include 
providing for themselves.  
 
One often wonders how people ever survived before the government milk bottle 
was invented.  I've heard that before, neighbors & family used to take care 
of each other.
 
Anyway, many will probably blame the rich for causing this,,,, but I blame 
the government for making promises that long term could not be guaranteed...
 


--- On Sun, 12/7/08, bob ford <bobford79 AT yahoo.com> wrote:

From: bob ford <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>
Subject: [Homestead] "Tax The Rich"
To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 7:49 PM

An interesting commentary from today.  I know I should comment, but I don't
really know what to think about this..................


------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

 December 7, 2008    Stop Paying Credit Card Debt ...    
  
 
 Tax the Rich! State Budget Crisis Deepens: Humanitarian Crisis Emerges 


by Shamus Cooke
 
 
Global Research, December 6, 2008 
 

Social catastrophes are poorly expressed by statistics. A recent study by The
Center on Budget and Policy Priorities revealed that 41 states are facing 
severe
budget shortfalls for 2009. Some states are worse off than others, with
California ($31.7 billion) and Florida ($5.1 billion) leading the deficit 
pack.

 In all, the 41 states are currently facing a $71.9 billion budget shortfall.
The key word here is “currently,” since a similar study was conducted by the
same group only three months earlier, at which time “only” 29 states were
predicted to face shortfalls of a “mere” $48 billion. As the recession
deepens, so will the state’s budget problems, turning this “budget crisis”
into a humanitarian disaster. Projections have already been made for a $200
billion shortfall by 2010.

These deficits have already transcended the computer screen of the 
statistician
into real suffering of the most vulnerable sections of society. In dozens of
states across the country, vital services are being cut to the elderly,
disabled, the poor, and recently unemployed. Teachers are being cut from 
schools
and tuitions are rising. Workers from state construction sites are being laid
off, while social service employees suffer a similar fate. Non profits are
closing their doors.

Most likely, these pains only mark the beginning. Many states have a “rainy
day fund” of some kind that they use to plan for such crises. These funds are
already depleted, or certain to dry up quickly, with “hard decisions” now
having to be made. This is especially troubling when one considers that, in 
many
cases, state cutbacks made from the 2001 recession remained in place. Not to
mention that successive presidents have successfully plundered federal social
programs.

 The new, extraordinary state budgets that are being drawn up to address the
current deficit crisis will essentially destroy the social safety net for
millions of people, including access to daycare, food stamps, welfare, and 
basic
medical services.  The fact that the federal budget is in even worse shape, 
and
will likely choose to follow a similar route of massive cuts, makes future
predictions of social calamity all but certain. 

The options available to states to respond to budget crises are limited since
states are not allowed to run deficits; they must solve their budget problems
immediately. Nearly every state government is reacting to the crisis in
essentially the same way: by cutting essential services and raising
“secondary” taxes (alcohol, cigarettes, gas, etc). In reality, after
spending their reserve funds, states have only two viable options: cutting
spending and raising taxes.

Raising taxes is counterproductive for two reasons: it can cause social unrest
and it takes money out of people’s pockets who would otherwise be “aiding”
the economy by purchasing things.

However, there is a class of people whom this does not apply to: the very
wealthy. By taxing them instead, money will not be taken out of the economy
since it lays idle in banks (especially since they’ve temporarily stopped
gambling in the stock market). Also, there can be no fear of social unrest 
when
this group is taxed, since they constitute a very, very small section of
society.

Rather than opting for this common sense solution, states are instead raising
taxes on gas, alcohol, cigarettes, sales taxes, among other things that affect
working and poor people disproportionately more than the rich, at a time when
the working class is already financially desperate.

And yet another grim way that states are responding to the crisis is building
prisons and focusing on “law and order.” The money spent on building these
prisons will likely house many people who have recently had their social
services terminated. 

Perhaps most disturbing about this crisis is that it could not have been
planned for. In a market economy, a state’s budget depends on income generated
by “market forces”, determining the ability of corporations to sell their
products and employ workers. When there is a crisis in the markets—  as when
more goods are produced than can be bought— society as a whole is dragged
down; a“glut” in the labor market emerges, followed by mass layoffs.

 The states cannot plan their budget, including how many services they need to
provide, nor how many roads they can build, because the market is completely
unpredictable. Every projection the states made about the future was 
completely
off: instead of building towards a better future they are destroying what had
already existed. 

The first step in addressing the current crisis is to confront those who
benefit most from the current social arrangement. It is not by accident that
most corporations pay far less taxes than the average worker, while the rich
continue to have their taxes lowered.

 In fact, according to a recent study, two-thirds of all corporations did not
pay any taxes during the past year. These same interests sparked the current
crisis by not only driving down the wages of workers to the point they were
unable to purchase goods, but by creating and profiting from the pyramid 
scheme
that created the housing crisis. 

The vast profits made by the rich and corporations in the previous boom must 
be
funneled back to the states and local governments to pay for the current 
crisis.
Because this solution is a threat to the corporate elite who control 
government,
it will not happen merely by request. 

To accomplish this, a broad-based coalition is needed of working and poor
people affected by the current crisis, led by the organized labor of the
teachers, health care workers, and public employees, united around the demands
of ending corporate bailout and for a progressive tax policy— one aimed at
taxing the rich, not working people.

  Such a coalition, because of the vast numbers of people it represented, 
would
have the potential to unite all workers, both in the public and private 
sectors.
 It would therefore have the strength to transform this "request" into
a demand:  TAX THE RICH!

Shamus Cooke is a social service worker, trade unionist, and writer for 
Workers
Action (www.workerscompass.org).  He can be reached at shamuscook AT yahoo.com 

 

Shamus Cooke is a frequent contributor to Global Research.  Global Research
Articles by Shamus Cooke 
 
 



      
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>From bobford79 AT yahoo.com  Sun Dec  7 20:13:47 2008
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Leslie; you are smart and a quick study.  Why are you so interested?  I am 
curious.

A few notes, I have interjected blow, within your post.  You can 
differentiate my comments by the fact that they start with asteriks
------------------------------------------------------------------------


--- On Sun, 12/7/08, Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com> wrote:


> Yesterday, basically you posted along the lines that if the Fed prints the 
> same amount of money as asset destruction,there is no inflation, no 
> deflation.  At least that was my simplified interpretation, so correct me 
> if I got that wrong.  It was something I was wondering about a few months
> back.



***** No you were correct in your understanding.  But, that is one school of 
economic thought.  Milton Friedman, and others would disagree





 
 There's no arguing we've had asset deflation, and there is more to come.  
For example, statistically undcyclically theory etc. after a decent bounce up 
in the stock market, we should see another 45% down in that class of
asset.  Which would be quite similar to the 1929-1932 drop of some 90%.


*******The general equities market could drop another fifty percent, as you 
think; or it could be at its bottom , now.  KNowing the answer to that could 
make a person rich.  Everyone is guessing, some in more educated ways than 
others.  Don't assume the past will always guide the future.



 
> Last year, I think in August (possibly October) Cramer did



"****** Cramer" is idiotic pablum for the masses.  Yes he made a lot of money 
once in commodities and hedge funds, noe, he plays his television version of 
Captain Kangaroo for adults




 how the Fed has been injection all this money into the banks ............ 
  .............It isn't working because the banks
> are hoarding that cash....



****** The fed is a private holding company of private bankers making up our 
central bank.  The Feds concern for the health of the banking system and vice 
-versa, is quite healthy



how can we be sure they will not overestimate the number of monetized
> debt dollars to inject without triggering a hyper-inflation?



***** No one is "sure" of anything
 



>  
> Again, that gold backwardation in the futures market tells
> a big story about people who are smarter than I am for
> sure.  



****** Gold backwardation is the most ominous economic event that I believe 
has occurred in my lifetime



Technically, gold is not and has not yet been in a
> bubble.  Price would have to rise some 1800% - 2400% before...


***** That is a matter of opinion, gold would need to go to $6800.00 US, to 
reach its intra-day high from 1980 , if you factor in inflation
>