Homestead mailing list

[Rob <becida AT comcast.net>]

Hello folks,
I can across a Tvo mailbox in an old Eudora program. there are over 3k 
posts form tvo starting in 1999 thru 2002.
If no one minds I'm going to slowly go thru it and resend some to the list. 
(like here). I guess I'll title them "Tvo- subject".
If you have a particular post of his you really wish you still had give me 
a shout and some idea of what to look for. Like I said there are 3565 
message from Feb 1999 to the end of March 2002.
Anyway, here's the first one.

Rob
```````````````
Date:   Tue, 09 Feb 1999 21:13:52 -0500
Reply-To: homestead AT listserv.oit.unc.edu
Sender: owner-homestead AT listserv.oit.unc.edu
From: Tvoivozhd <tvoivozd AT roanoke.infi.net>
To: homestead AT listserv.oit.unc.edu
Subject: Old Evelyn/Tvo repost on various and sundry for recent arrivals
X-Accept-Language: en
X-Orcpt: rfc822;homestead AT listserv.oit.unc.edu
X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

I was rummaging through a few files that didn't get trapped in the dead
hard-drive and thought there were a few items in this one (and URL's)
that were worth reposting for newer arrivals.



<P>evelyn wrote: But isn't there something else the goats can eat
besidesgrain?
I seem to remember talk about various perineals that we can use in place
of grain. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't acorns and pigeon peas good
substitutes&nbsp; for grain?

<P>tvoivozhd>>>pigeon peas (cajanus cajan, gandul) are limited to
warm-weather
areas---find the reference in this URL&nbsp;
http://www.newforestsproject.com/seed.html&nbsp;
Also describes a lot of other exotics (in English and Spanish) with
interesting
characteristics.tvoivozhd>>>The basic requirement for goats is
browse.&nbsp;
Their feeding habits---(an evolutionary response to prevent worm
infestation),
prevents them from close grazing of grass other than to avoid
starvation.&nbsp;
Like the other ever-present browsing animal---deer, they would also
relish
fallen nuts and seedpods. (and apples, don't forget apples!).

<P>Low-tannin acorns would be fine and the best varieties (seedlings)
are
obtainable from Oikos Tree Crops, P.O. Box 19425, Kalamazoo, Michigan
49019-0425.&nbsp;
Everyone should plant them---their life-span can be 300 to 400 years,
but
for long-term benefit of your children, grandchildren and their
grandchildren,
since most of the longer-lived varieties will take ten to fifteen years
before starting to bear.

<P>&nbsp;Chestnuts closely approximating the feed value of corn would be
quicker to produce nuts, as would hazelnuts (both about five years) and
the equivalent of 400 bushels-per-acre grain in yield
<BR>Until The American Chestnut Foundation starts sale in 2002 of the
blight-resistant
15/16ths American, 1/16 Chinese, the best and cheapest source of a
variety
of chestnut hybrids is Bear Creek Nursery (address below)&nbsp; Other
sites
and cultivation data to be found in Northern Nut Growers Association
(become
a member!) website at&nbsp; http://www.icserv.com/nnga/. Join the
American
Chestnut Society too!

<P>Here is a Philip Rutter paper on no-till agroforestry
permaculture---the
chestnut treeand hazelnut bush (also a 50-foot tree in the Turkish,
Chinese,
Indian Tree Hazel and hybrids thereof---Chinese and Indian are shorter
trees) as replacement for annual corn (maize) and soybean
plantings.&nbsp;
(There is a possibility of turning corn into a perennial plant, with
some
experiment toward that
end).http://www.traverse.com/earthkeepers/WOODYAG.html

<P>Here is another Philip Rutter paper entitled "Kill More Trees".&nbsp;
Read it and find out why that is such good advice.&nbsp;
http://gopher.well.sf.ca.us:70/0/WER/kill.trees

<P>A University of California "Small Farm Center" paper on
Chestnuts---species,
varieties propagation, sources, markets, volume, prices, cultural
practices,
harvest, storage
http://www.sfc.ucdavis.edu/pubs/newsletters/SFNews/archive/MarApr96-1.html

<P>Bear Creek Nursery is a good source, but the best source---by far the
heaviest producing, most precocious varieties of hazelnuts is Badgersett
Research Farm (Philip Rutter--founder and Past President of American
Chestnut
Foundation rehabilitating the blight-susceptible American Chestnut)
Badgersett
Research Farm, Rural Route 1, Box 131, Canton, Minnesota 55922
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>

<P>And I remember Tvo extolling a honey locust that had so many
<BR>pods they could easily replace oats.</BLOCKQUOTE>
tvoivozhd>>>The Calhoun variety of&nbsp; Gleditsia Triacanthos Honey
Locust
(about 39 percent sugar content) may still be growing on some remote
southern
hillside, but unless the seed source could be controlled, any
large-scale
search effort directed toward rediscovery, or laboratory-test of similar
cultivars is unlikely to receive funding by any agricultural college
whose
own source of funds and interests has shifted from those TERRIBLE TAXES
we've heard so much about, to research in which a corporate contributor
is the sole or primary beneficiary of results.

<P>A variety tentatively identified as the Milwood variety (36% sugar
and
at a density of 48 trees per acre, producing from 2798 to 3150 pounds of
pods per acre from five year-old trees) , is still being sold by a few
seedhouses and nurseries.&nbsp; Two that I know of are F.W. Schumacher
(wholesale seed source to most U.S. nurseries), 36 Spring Hill Road,
Sandwich
MA 02563-1023, Telephone 508-888-0659 and SBE (run down their website in
Cyndi's Catalog of Catalogs)
http://www.cog.brown.edu/gardening/cat16/frame-cat.html

<P>A lot of nurseries are of doubtful competence or perhaps indifferent
to accuracy in correctly identifying their seedstock, so there is always
an element of risk and it will take you five years or more to confirm
accuracy
or error---(unless you own a reference germ-plasm bank and the equipment
to make DNA tests).

<P>If "Milwood" is described as Gleditsia Triacanthos Inermis, as it was
in my last (old) Schumacher catalog you may be sure something is
wrong---if
indeed the seed is truly Inermis (meaning without thorns)---it is a
cultivar
selected as a yard shade tree because its fine leaves never have to be
picked up and it lacks dangerous thorns. It would also have near-zero
seedpod
production---again because it was selected a shade tree with no messy
pods
to pile up in the yard.

<P>Both Calhoun and Milwood will have profuse thorns---they were
selected
for heavy production of sugar-rich pods, not as thorn-free.

<P>Note the above yields of 2798 to 3150 pounds, the higher yielding
trees
(five years old) averaged 12.5 feet in height and 3.6 inches diameter,
the 3150 pounds being the food-value equivalent of 105 bushels of oats
per acre, or 56 bushels of corn.

<P>At eight years of age the yield rose to well over 250 pounds of pods
per tree---at a reduced 35 trees per acre, the production of&nbsp; 8750
pounds total being an unattainable 275 bushels of oats equivalent. As
the
trees approached maturity, like chestnuts the seedpod yield could be
expected
to be the equivalent of 400 bushels per acre corn

<P>Note these trees were planted into Lespedeza, which in addition to
protecting
the soil from erosion, smothering weeds, and producing nitrogen , also
produced 2 1/2 tons of hay per acre as part of a normal two-tier
agriculture
as practiced in the chestnut forests of Southern Europe for centuries.

<P>It may be the poor soil here, but although Oikos (they no longer sell
Honey Locust) is extremely conscientous about carefully identifying
their
seed sources, I am dubious about the true identity of the Milwood
seedlings
I bought from them five years ago---mine are still only three or four
feet
tall (should be ten or twelve), and are obviously not ready to produce
seed pods.

<P>Note that you aren't ever going to permanently keep goats in a
woodlot
that produces a seasonal flush of acorns, chestnuts, apples or seasonal
anything else.&nbsp; You would certainly harvest some or all of the crop
for winter storage---perhaps for sale to citydwellers.&nbsp; If there is
an unharvested balance you can rotate the goats in our out to conduct
their
own harvest, but well before the fallen goodies are exhausted you want
them out---before they start girdling the trees in lieu of the twigs
that
are too high for them to reach, and of course you would never allow them
in among small trees where they would gleefully nip off the branches,
the
leaders, and all hope of establishing a tree-based permaculture..

<P>For year-around goat-browse you want a combination of palatable
fast-growing
trees and shrubs that are of a stooling-nature---i.e., if cut to the
ground,
will react by sending up a profusion of new shoots from the trunk or
root-system.&nbsp;
Here we are talking about willow or bamboo as the probable best choice
(and with best alternative homestead workshop/craft uses as well),
poplar
and aspen (related) as most common second best---some variety of willow
and poplar anywhere and bamboo in the southern states.

<P>The willows of choice for forage browse would be a hybrid such as
Salix
Alba x S.Madsudana, S.Alba x S. Tortuosa, a basket willow such as S.
Viminalis,
or Gigantea Korso&nbsp; (which produces eight tons or more per acre for
cattle feed or firewood chips---and the best possible source of
mulch-chips
for your no-till gardens).&nbsp; The latter (and many other good,
low-cost
nut, fruit, browse trees and shrubs---and don't forget the apples!) is
available from Bear Creek Nursery---P.O. Box 411, Northport, WA
99157.&nbsp;
Website for new catalog still under development, but e-mail
address&nbsp;
for printed catalog and orders is&nbsp; <A
HREF="mailto:sales AT bearcreeknursery.com";>mailto:sales AT bearcreeknursery.com</A>

<P>Shrubs to interplant (and don't forget the apples)---with varying
degrees
of edibility, (and other wildlife utilization) are described in the
following
Colorado Conservation Department list.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
http://lamar.colostate.edu/~pbarth/csfs/wildlife_values.html&nbsp;
And a website for willow, aspen, poplar, cottonwood research
results&nbsp;
http://poplar2.cfr.washington.edu/

<P>For machine-planting and machine-harvesting of willow for biomass
fuel,
for coppicing to maximize forage production, and ease harvesting by
either
machine or animal, you need room for the machines, hence the Swedish
double-row
system of 6200 trees per acre described in the following URL
http://www.esd.ornl.gov/bfdp/forum/96spring.html

<P>The commercial planting of S. Viminalis for energy biomass is
described
in this URL&nbsp; (yes you can still use them to make baskets too)
http://gis.joensuu.fi/research/paju/energy1.html

<P>Things to think about as to where and whether to establish a
perennial
biomass planting for fuel and forage.&nbsp; (converting row-crop land to
perennial biomass--good, converting diversified forestland to perennial
biomass--bad, a water-filtration strip and fish-cover adjacent to
streams--good,
drying up wetlands which incubate marine life--bad).&nbsp; (Remember the
Law Of Unforeseen Consequence!)
<BR>&nbsp;http://www.panix.com/~jimcook/data/ec-workshop.html

<P>The ShelterBelt aspect when food trees are planted adjacent to
no-till
fields and garden---design the shelterbelt also to protect from wind,
conserve
moisture, avoid competition from grass, and avoid trees that compete
with
garden and field plants---or spread uncontrollably. And don't forget in
the mixture to provide for your insect, animal and bird allies---browse,
seeds, fruits, nesting sites, refuge.&nbsp;
http://www.agric.gov.ab.ca/agdex/200/77002003.html

<P>This is a brief note on what to do for your goats with a headache.
http://www.kcweb.com/herb/whitew.htm

<P>Source (there are others) on S. Alba x S. Matsudana
http://www.traverse.com/earthkeepers/SALIX.html

<P>Community Forester Institute (who sponsors S.Alba x S. Matsudana and
other "Supertrees" in the U.S.
http://www.traverse.com/earthkeepers/SQ494.html

<P>High tech trees for chemical feedstock (ethanol, methanol--better yet
DME--Dimethyl Ether, not mentioned here, as liquid fuel for your car,
truck,
tractor and chainsaw)
http://www.esd.ornl.gov/bfdp/papers/misc/trees.html

<P>I mentioned bamboo.&nbsp; Fast-growing, many types, with a myriad of
uses--animal food, your food, furniture, construction, for shame if you
do not include it in your no-till, permaculture plans.&nbsp; The
American
Bamboo Society is the best starting point for an overwhelming amount of
information&nbsp; If you didn't save it from a Lee Flier posting a while
back, here it is again..
<BR>http://www.halcyon.com/abs/.:
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>If we could just track
<BR>down that vanished variety! If we could replace grains with
<BR>other things (technical term, I know) then we wouldn't have
<BR>to worry about planting and havesting acres of grain.

<P>evelyn</BLOCKQUOTE>
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