Corpus-Paul

[Bob MacDonald <bobmacdonald AT shaw.ca>]

Mark

re hard work reading: 60 pages on line in PDF format is a
stretch - I should have printed it but that means getting it
to the office etc. I just had to trim 50 words from a 350
word story for a postcard contest - sometimes good things
are in small packages - but don't go overboard :)

Mark: >>Is it the subject matter, reading against the
grain, or the communication style itself?

Bob: I think it is the careful reading between the lines -
so many possibilities to be considered. Like Talmud and
Targum, stretching - few do it - so I think this is good -
but it pulls against the accessible sound bite.

Mark: >>I don't understand what problem you see here (Romans
14:6) to Paul and his groups observing a Jewish calendar. I
still suppose that they meet within Jewish social space and
thus according to a Jewish calendar. ...What is that
teaching Gentiles not to observe?

Bob: On page 21, you imply that Paul has introduced his
addressees in Galatia to Jewish time reckoning; For you
therefore, the list of days, months, seasons would imply a
pagan calendar - and I expect you are right here. The
comment in Romans about keeping or not keeping days implies
a conflict over observance of days in Rome. I assume that
some of them were _not_ keeping a Jewish Calendar - and not
keeping it 'to the Lord' which I take to mean that Paul
considered it not important. It is a small point and risky
to read too much into it. (Additional note: It appears that
some Jews only observed Sabbath monthly
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/crosstalk2/message/18954) - I
don't know how to interpret this against your careful read
of the missing 7 day cycle in the Galatians list.)

Mark: re increasing the ranks >>Perhaps this is one of the
reasons reading my work is difficult for you? since we
use similar language, but often with very different
assumptions about the imagined reality we are trying to
describe.

Bob: proselytising is not an issue for my reading. I assume
from the presence of God fearers that there were pagans
attracted to Judaism that converted. It was and is a very
attractive faith and the love of Torah is clear from many
witnesses in that day and ours. Your interpretation of
"remaining in the state in which he was called" implies an
end to such conversions as far as visible identity is
concerned.

Mark: (Colossians 2:11) >>  Not sure what it means, ... but
you have aroused my curiosity.

Bob: I have been struck by this verse for several years
especially since reading Hoffman to whom you directed me
some time ago. The metaphoric connection between
circumcision and the Eucharist became clear to me. Dunn
(Theology of Paul) sees this verse as indicating baptism -
but I think he jumps too quickly to verse 12. He also
attributes SWMATOS THS SARKOS to _Christ_ - but I have
thought it means the body of flesh _of the believer_ - the
putting off of the body of flesh - by faith (and yes)
through baptism (vs. 12).

Mark: >>(mis)understood (in my view) in this way by those
who
regard his letters to be sacred.

Bob: I am not sure what you mean by sacred here. Paul is
important to me because his letters are all we have
unambiguously from prior to the destruction. Why would I
bother? if not for love of the same Torah - sacred? yes -
able to be questioned as deeply as one can handle - yes too.

> 5. Keeping/guarding the whole Law - Mark reverses the
responsibility.

Mark: I don't understand what that means.

Bob: your next paragraph repeats what I thought your article
intended (but it is a stylistic high-bar). I think we agree
:)

But there is a problem with this verse: if Torah is loved,
why would not one want to be a part of it completely
including circumcision?
- how else would one
a> be in the covenant
b> not be cut off from the people and
c> escape the marginalization of being half-in ?

Paul is inadvertently making circumcision even more
attractive.

We agree though that Paul preached that Christ-believers do
not require circumcision to be in the covenant. How then do
they avoid being cut off from the people? They are 'in
Christ' who was cut off for their sake.

How does a Gentile know he is in the covenant? by the Holy
Spirit. (what you received in the Spirit should you complete
in the flesh? 3.3)

How does a Gentile keep the whole law? By love only - this
argument has resonances in Romans. If by love then indeed
there is no distinction whether circumcised or not.

I find Paul's silence on this matter intriguing and
ambiguous with respect to Christ-believing Jews. I accept
your arguments and the testimony of Acts but they do not
convince me. Hoffman sees circumcision as substituting for
sacrifice. The question is begged for a Christ-believer - if
this sacrifice is my completion, what about that of my sons?

I will put the rest of our reading problems down to style
differences and lack of sufficient punctuation :)

Thank you again for your stimulation and careful work.

Bob

Bob MacDonald
http://bobmacdonald.gx.ca
Victoria, B.C., Canada