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Re: Richard:Re: [Corpus-Paul] Toward a Theology of OT Covenant
- From: "John Brand" <jbrand AT gvsd.mb.ca>
- To: Corpus-Paul <corpus-paul AT lists.ibiblio.org>
- Subject: Re: Richard:Re: [Corpus-Paul] Toward a Theology of OT Covenant
- Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 14:27:56 -0500
From: "meta"
<meta AT rraz.net>
To: "Corpus-Paul"
<corpus-paul AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Richard:Re:
[Corpus-Paul] Toward a Theology of OT Covenant
Date sent: Fri,
17 Sep 2004 20:16:14 -0700
Richard wrote:
> Ok, but sin was not reckoned because yhwh is only at this time trying
> to establish a relationship with this people, long before this god
> could establish any law. And perhaps this is why the covenant was so
> lopsided with the god's promise without requiring obedience to any
> commandments or laws from Abram, fundamentally different when yhwh has
> won the people over through deliverance, and then he could require law
> through Moses. Again the Abram covenant appears to require nothing of
> Abe, other than recognition which was realized through his faith. I
> don't see any particular relevance in the remaining portion of your
> comments in this segment.
John responds:
I intend to respond further to your posting as well as another post which I have not yet
responded to. However, I thought that this statement of yours was helpful in terms of
understanding how you are understanding YHWH and his attempts to establish a
relationship with the Abraham and his descendants.
If we are looking at this from the perspective of the ANE pantheon (which is a
fascinating vantage point IMO), we see gods who claim certain city-states to which they
will be indentified. By means of this stake in the realm of mankind they are able to
wield influence in the pantheon. Thus, Marduk and his city becomes head of the
pantheon by his defeat of Tiamat.
YHWH/Elohim claims that he is the one who has split the waters (Genesis 1) and from
that created the dry land and mankind. Genesis 1-11 constitute a unit (we can move
through the proof for this if you wish) prefatory to the Abraham narrative. YHWH has
been continually limiting the spread of violence in the earth by various divine acts of
judgement just as the gods of the pantheon do in other mythologies. I mentioned the
creation of Enkidu. We could also think of Ishtar's request to El that Gilgamesh be
stopped from his high minded attitude toward her. El responds by the decision that
Enkidu be killed.
If you'll look at the word study of Heqim which I
sent along off-list, you will note
that one of the figurative nuances of heqim is that of setting a legal precedent to be
passed on to future generations:
PSA 78:5 He established (heqim)
a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel,
which he commanded our fathers to teach to their children; that the next generation
might know them, the children yet unborn, and arise and tell them to their children,
(RSV)
The Psalmist here appears to be reflecting
the idea that I mentioned in connection with
Genesis 18:19 where YHWH says that Abraham will command his children to follow
the way of YHWH and so succeed in their endeavors.
Looking back the nation affirms the trustworthiness
of YHWH. Abraham affirms this
trust from the start.
Any comments? I'll add to these thoughts
in my response to the other posts.
John Brand
B.A. Bib Stu (Providence College, Otterburne, MB, Canada, 1980)
M.Min. (Providence Seminary, 1991)
jbrand AT gvsd.mb.ca
-
Re: [Corpus-Paul] Second Temple Judaism and Covenant,
John Brand, 09/09/2004
-
Re: [Corpus-Paul] Second Temple Judaism and Covenant,
meta, 09/10/2004
-
[Corpus-Paul] Toward a Theology of OT Covenant,
John Brand, 09/16/2004
-
Re: [Corpus-Paul] Toward a Theology of OT Covenant,
meta, 09/17/2004
-
Re: [Corpus-Paul] Toward a Theology of OT Covenant,
meta, 09/17/2004
-
Re: [Corpus-Paul] Toward a Theology of OT Covenant,
John Brand, 09/17/2004
-
Richard:Re: [Corpus-Paul] Toward a Theology of OT Covenant,
meta, 09/18/2004
- Re: Richard:Re: [Corpus-Paul] Toward a Theology of OT Covenant, John Brand, 09/20/2004
- Re: Richard:Re: [Corpus-Paul] Toward a Theology of OT Covenant, meta, 09/20/2004
- RE: Richard:Re: [Corpus-Paul] Toward a Theology of OT Covenant, Sheila E. McGinn, Ph.D., 09/21/2004
- RE: Richard:Re: [Corpus-Paul] Toward a Theology of OT Covenant, John Brand, 09/21/2004
- Re: Richard:Re: [Corpus-Paul] Toward a Theology of OT Covenant, meta, 09/21/2004
- [Corpus-Paul] Romans 4/Galatians 3 Obligation and the Covenant, John Brand, 09/22/2004
- Re: [Corpus-Paul] Romans 4/Galatians 3 Obligation and the Covenant, meta, 09/22/2004
-
Richard:Re: [Corpus-Paul] Toward a Theology of OT Covenant,
meta, 09/18/2004
-
Re: [Corpus-Paul] Toward a Theology of OT Covenant,
John Brand, 09/17/2004
-
Re: [Corpus-Paul] Toward a Theology of OT Covenant,
meta, 09/17/2004
-
Re: [Corpus-Paul] Toward a Theology of OT Covenant,
meta, 09/17/2004
-
[Corpus-Paul] Toward a Theology of OT Covenant,
John Brand, 09/16/2004
-
Re: [Corpus-Paul] Second Temple Judaism and Covenant,
meta, 09/10/2004
-
Re: [Corpus-Paul] Toward a Theology of OT Covenant,
meta, 09/22/2004
-
Re: [Corpus-Paul] Toward a Theology of OT Covenant,
John Brand, 09/27/2004
- Re: [Corpus-Paul] Toward a Theology of OT Covenant, meta, 09/27/2004
-
Re: [Corpus-Paul] Toward a Theology of OT Covenant,
John Brand, 09/27/2004
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