Corpus-Paul

["Given, Mark Douglas" <mdg421f AT smsu.edu>]

Title: Message

Thanks John.  I just checked the interlibrary loan here in Missouri and none of the libraries has your book yet.  I'll place an order for our library today.

 

I thought about raising the "hypothetical" issue in my previous post, but I don't buy that either, so I skipped it.

 

I--like Jeff it seems--still wonder if the language could imply more than just "overhearing," but it's certainly also interesting to think that a regular feature of these meetings was believers examining, critiquing, testing, refuting, judging, etc., each other.  (And, of course, there are other passages in the Corinthian letters that would support that.)  Both possibilities remind me of an article I read in the August issue of Christianity Today on "Finding God in Small Groups."  (My mom sends me a subscription every year--what can I do?)  It was an interview with Tom Albin who did doctoral research at Cambridge on early Methodism.  His descriptions of the "trial band" and the "class meeting" reminded me of aspects of what might have been going on in Corinthian house churches.

 

On another bibliographical note, I finally got around to reading most of Rodney Stark's, The Rise of Christianity.  I had heard convincing arguments before that the Christian movement mainly spread by one-on-one witnessing, but it seemed to me that his arguments based on modern analogies with new religious movements made them more convincing than ever.  By far, the greatest numerical successes for a new religion or sect comes through networking of family and friends.  Also fascinating was the way converts "lied" about what got them into a movement.  The propaganda of movements is usually not very successful until it is combined with the influence of family and friends, but after the conversion the convert typically says it was the overwhelming force of the message of the charismatic leader that brought them in.  It seems that "biographical reconstruction" (Snow and Machalek) includes more than just how "wrong" one's life was before conversion.  (-;

 

Mark

 

-----Original Message-----
From: corpus-paul-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:corpus-paul-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Bigpond Dial-up
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 4:14 AM
To: Corpus-Paul
Subject: Re: [Corpus-Paul] Re:Judaism: a missionary religion or just opentoconverts?

Dear Mark (Given),

Glad you're enjoying the conversation, as am I.

Have I done anything with 1 Cor 14:23-25? Yes, indeed: on pages 293-302 of my previously mentioned book. Openness to outsiders was, it seems, a feature of the synagogue celebrations in antiquity (at least at Alexandria and Antioch and, I assume, elsewhere as well). Pauline congregations will not have been any less open. The fact that converts were meeting in a home - probably of a wealthier and therefore more prominent Corinthian - will not have been a problem since, as I think Jeff pointed out, philosophical gatherings of various types were known to meet on occasion in homes. I doubt there was a sign outside the front gate - 'Revival meeting inside'! - and a simple invitation from believer to unbeliever is easy enough to imagine.

What may be said about the text in question? First, that Paul speaks of the presence of outsiders at public worship suggests that the scenario was not (as far as he was concerned) out of the ordinary. Furthermore, the argument would lack substance entirely were the ‘hypotheticals’ in the text not believable in the minds of Paul’s readers. The high level of social integration already practiced by some Corinthian believers (1 Cor 8, 10) will have contributed to the ease with which unbelieving friends and family, curious to know what went on among the Christians, could enter their gatherings. Secondly, that Paul expected the potential incorporation of new believers described in 1 Cor 14:23-25 to provide a motivation for the Corinthians to change their ways (in the practice of 'tongues'), implies that concern for the conversion of outsiders was a shared assumption among Paul and his converts. Thirdly, Paul clearly believed that the visitor’s presence at public worship contained mission possibilities. This is not to say the prophetic speech of v.24 is in any way directed toward the outsider. Paul’s language describes the would-be-believer simply entering the gathering while the prophesying is already going on; he merely ‘overhears’ a typical utterance aimed at the gathered faithful and is convinced. I'm sure many of those who attend churches regularly today will know of modern analogies.

Kind regards,

John

 

Dr. John P. Dickson
Sydney, Australia

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Given, Mark Douglas

To: Corpus-Paul

Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 12:12 PM

Subject: RE: [Corpus-Paul] Re:Judaism: a missionary religion or just open toconverts?

Hi John and others,

 

I'm enjoying this. I wondered, John, if you did anything with 1 Corinthians 14:23-25 in your study:

 

²³ Suppose that, if the whole congregation were meeting and all of them speaking in tongues, and some uninitiated people or unbelievers were to come in, don't you think they would say that you were all raving? ²⁴ But if you were all prophesying when an unbeliever or someone uninitiated came in, he would find himself put to the test (elengcho) by all and judged (anakrino) by all ²⁵ and the secrets of his heart revealed; and so he would fall down on his face and worship God, declaring that God is indeed among you. (New Jerusalem Bible).

 

I find this passage fascinating because it conjures up an image for me of prophesying as being similar to an elengchos ("refutation," as practiced by Socrates, some the Sophists, et al.), but, be that as it may, how did unbelievers and the uninitiated get there?  Did a believer invite them? I must say it's fascinating (entertaining?) to think of someone being invited over to a friend or relative's house for a friendly little "gathering," only to find him/herself getting "refuted" and "examined/evaluated," and by ALL no less!  Sounds a bit too much like some of the "revivals" I occasionally witnessed growing up in the hills . . .  (-;

 

Anyway, is it possible that believers bringing unbelievers in was not unusual?

 

Mark