Corpus-Paul

["Mark D. Nanos" <nanosmd AT comcast.net>]

on 9/10/02 5:08 PM, Frich107 AT aol.com at Frich107 AT aol.com wrote:

> You speak of the disputable things being those that Paul mentions in chapter
> 14 (and I would certainly agree with that). Would you limit these things 
> that
> were being discussed/disputed in the synagogue in Rome to those issues 
> alone,
> or do you think they would be wider ranging? In particular, would you not
> feel it reasonable to postulate that another issue of disagreement would
> likely be the identity of Jesus?

Fred,
I do think that the matter of Jesus and what these non-Jews are claiming for
him, along with any Jewish believers in Jesus, is of concern; that is simply
logical. I argue that they are meeting within the Jewish communities of Rome
as Jewish subgroups. But the letter is not directed to those who are not
Christ-believers, so it is difficult to know just what form this concern
took, and no doubt it differed from person to person and group to group, and
from time to time. 

Yet I do not think that Paul indicates that the "things" in dispute in
14--15 includes the way Jesus is understood. It seems rather that Paul calls
for the believers in Jesus to alter their way where the things in dispute
are concerned, which would not apply to leaving aside faith in him. Rather,
he calls them to behave in the ways incumbent upon non-Jews making the kinds
of claims the addressees are making, because of their new identity in
Christ. They are to alter their behavior in those things (i.e., certain ways
of perceiving their responsibilities in matters of food/drink/days) to which
they appear to believe they are entitled (because of their faith in Christ,
since they have remained non-Jews), but the "stumbling" do not think
appropriate for people making the claims that these non-Jews are making for
themselves. The "things" appear to be halakhic matters, not theological
convictions per se.
> 
> I suppose the one major stumbling block in your argument for me is the 
> common
> ground that you discuss. You speak of that being related to the quotation
> that Paul makes from Isaiah 45, and hence is being able to worship God
> together (in the synagogue context). Now undoubtedly that would be common
> ground between Christians and Jews in First Century Rome. However, would 
> Paul
> really be speaking to the Roman Christians, asking them to not just accept
> Jews but worship with them when they had a rather different view of Jesus'
> identity?

Why not? If Paul still believes he represents and speaks for the interests
of historical Israel, which is going through an unexpected and trying moment
that mysteriously benefits the non-Jewish addressees, but will in the end
benefit "all Israel," then this is not a stretch. That is the way I read his
comments in 15:1-13.

> It is the thought of worship being the shared ground without
> agreement about Jesus that I find hard to accept. Maybe I am being
> anachronistic here.

Just imagine that things had gone as Paul seems to write about them in ch.
11 within his lifetime (at least as I read it; see my ch. 5), not as they
appear to later interpreters who know that things did not go this way. You
are not the only one who has trouble imagining this. Several interpreters
have expressed that they cannot imagine such views for Paul, including that
he could not regard non-Christ-believing Jews "brothers" of Christ-believing
non-Jews. I have addressed this in Mystery, but not to the satisfaction of
every reader!

Can you imagine the kinds of possibilities for interaction that might
develop in someone like Wesley's Anglican career in the early stages of
imagining that he was involved in a renewal movement (I don't know much
about this, just trying to draw a possible analogy for clarification), and
the (still positive) ways he might have viewed representatives of the larger
body whom he had "not yet" convinced, versus the view that might be
expressed after his followers represented a separate movement?

Does this help?

Thanks for the interaction (and thanks Loren and Dave for the kind words
about my work).

Regards,
Mark
-- 
Mark D. Nanos, Ph.D.
313 NE Landings Dr.
Lee's Summit, MO 64064
USA
nanosmd AT comcast.net