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  • From: "Hyam Maccoby" <h.z.maccoby AT leeds.ac.uk>
  • To: "Corpus-paul" <corpus-paul AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
  • Subject: Re: The Mystery of Romans: the theme of- restoration of Israel
  • Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 12:58:37 -0000


Dear Moon,

Many thanks for your remarks. No, I do not think that the Jews were
destroyed as a nation by the Jewish War, any more than the French were
destroyed as a nation by losing the war to the Germans, or by the subsequent
German Occupation of France. In any case, the text does not refer to
`restoring the nation' but to `restoring the kingdom' (Acts 1.6; similar in
meaning is Luke 24.19, though without the use of `kingdom'), i.e. restoring
the Jewish monarchy and with it Jewish independence and self-rule.
As for Paul, I do not think he was interested in Jewish nationhood at
all, much less in the restoration of the monarchy. He was only concerned
with an eventual conversion of the Jews to his doctrine, by which they would
rejoin `Israel', which he understood in purely spiritual, non-political
terms. Unlike the Twelve, he did not think of Jesus as King of the Jewish
nation, but as a divine sacrificial figure. This was not an `intra-Jewish'
disagreement, but a radical departure from Jewish thinking about the term
`Israel', and an abandonment of the interpretation of `Israel' as a nation.

With best wishes,

Hyam


Hyam Maccoby
Research Professor
Centre for Jewish Studies
University of Leeds
LS2
Direct lines: tel. +44 (0)113 268 1972
fax +44 (0)113 268 0041
e-mail: h.z.maccoby AT leeds.ac.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: "moon-ryul jung" <moon AT sogang.ac.kr>
To: "Corpus-paul" <corpus-paul AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 10:28 PM
Subject: [corpus-paul] Re: The Mystery of Romans: the theme of- restoration
of Israel


> > Moon-Riul Jung wrote
> > >The fact of history tells us
> > > that Israel was destroyed by the Roman armies and was scattered all
> > > over the world since then, rather than being restored.
> >
>
> Dear Hyam,
> thank you for your helpful comments. I stand corrected. Thanks.
> But do you mean that we cannot say that Israel as a nation was destroyed
> at the time of the Jewish War? If Israel as a nation was destroyed at
> that time, the "restoration of Israel" which Paul and others expected did
> not happen,
> if that restoration should be that of a nation, not just of its members.
> That is was what I was trying to say.
>
> Moon R. Jung
> Associate Professor
> Dept of Digital Media
> Sogang Univ,
> Seoul, Korea
>
>
> > This is not a 'fact of history' at all. It is a cherished myth,
repeated
> > endlessly. History tells us that the Jews constituted the majority of
the
> > population of the Land of Israel for over six centuries after the
> > destruction of the Temple by the Romans. It was during this period that
the
> > Mishnah, the Palestinian Talmud, the Tosefta and other Jewish classics
were
> > written. If the Jews were `scattered', how did Bar Kokhba manage to wage
> > such successful war against the Romans, about 60 years after the
destruction
> > of the Temple, holding out for three years? The age of Rabbi Judah the
> > Prince (3rd C), the redactor of the Mishnah, was a golden age in Jewish
> > history. It was the Arab conquest in the 7th century CE that led to
> > large-scale emigration of Jews, because ofthe disruption caused by the
> > internecine fighting of Arab groupings. Yet a substantial minority of
Jews
> > still remained, especially in Jerusalem, where many thousands of Jews
were
> > massacred by the Christian Crusaders in the 11th century CE. Even after
> > this, substantial numbers of Jews continued to inhabit the land,
> > supplemented by immigrants including the famous Nachmanides (13th C) and
the
> > mystics of Safed. At all times, it was
> > regarded as a religious duty to travel to Israel to supplement the
> > inhabitants, the Yishuv which never died out and continued right up to
the
> > advent of the Zionist movement in the 19th century, when mass
immigration
> > began.
> >
> > Hyam Maccoby
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Research Professor
> > Centre for Jewish Studies
> > University of Leeds
> > LS2
> > Direct lines: tel. +44 (0)113 268 1972
> > fax +44 (0)113 268 0041
> > e-mail: h.z.maccoby AT leeds.ac.uk
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "moon-ryul jung" <moon AT sogang.ac.kr>
> > To: "Corpus-paul" <corpus-paul AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 1:29 AM
> > Subject: [corpus-paul] Re: The Mystery of Romans: the theme of-
restoration
> > of Israel
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Moon
> > > Moon R. Jung
> > > Sogang Univ,
> > > Seoul, Korea
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > With hope for a new year like that for all humankind,
> > > > Mark
> > > > --
> > > > Mark D. Nanos, Ph.D.
> > > > 313 NE Landings Dr.
> > > > Lee's Summit, MO 64064
> > > > USA
> > > > nanosmd AT home.com
> > >
> > > ---
> > >
>
> ---
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