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  • From: Loren Rosson <rossoiii AT yahoo.com>
  • To: Corpus-paul <corpus-paul AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
  • Subject: Re: Romans 8.12-13
  • Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 09:11:02 -0800 (PST)


Christian Anible wrote:

>In chapter 6, Paul posits two options... Either one
>is an obedient slave of Sin, or an obedient slave
>of Righteousness.

>[In ch 8] The antithesis of v. 13 (“if you live
>according to the Flesh / if by the Spirit you put to
>death …”) is the one instance that might certainly be

>read as a true conditional, suggesting that all
>persons, whether believers or not, are constantly
>faced with a decision whether to live by the
>Flesh or by the Spirit put to death the deeds
>of the body. But such a meaning would present a
>direct contradiction to what he has said leading
>up to this statement and following it.

Christian,

Your position is that in the entirety of Rom 6 & 8,
only Rom 8:13 acknowledges the possibility of
Christ-believers succumbing to the power of sin. I
would submit that more verses point to this
possibility. Indeed, Paul goes back and forth between
the ideal and the actual:

1. Rom 6:2-10 speaks in terms of the absolutes to
which you refer (the "ideal"): Christ-believers "have
died to sin" and are thus altogether "free from sin".

2. But Rom 6:11-13 speaks to reality: "So you MUST
consider yourself dead to sin...DO NOT LET sin
exercise dominion in your mortal bodies..."

3. The interrogatives of Rom 6:1,15 also implicitly
acknowledge the reality of the present age. Paul twice
entertains the question of whether or not "we
Christ-believers SHOULD continue in sin". He seems
well aware of this real possibility and seeks to
stifle it by exhorting those to "present their members
as slaves to righteousness" (6:19).

4. Rom 6:14 speaks in absolute terms: "Sin will have
no dominion over you, since you are not under the law
but under grace."

5. Rom 8:1-11 speaks in absolute terms: "There is no
condemnation for those in Christ..."

6. But (as you note), Rom 8:12-17 speaks to reality:
"IF you live according to the flesh, you will die. But
IF, by the Spirit, you put to death the deeds of the
body, you will live."

This vacillation between the ideal and actual simply
reflects an eschatological tension and reminds the
Roman Christians that their bodies remain tied to the
old epoch (despite having undergone baptism into
Christ's death) and will not fully escape the powers
of that epoch until the end of all things (the
resurrection of the body). This is why they must be on
guard against sin, fulfill the law, and become "slaves
of obedience", etc. So I somewhat disagree with your
assertion that,

>Paul is not presenting an uncertain state of
>affairs, as if believers could be imagined as
>living by the Flesh.

In some texts he does, even if in others he doesn't.
He apparently believes that the Spirit empowers
Christ-believers to overcome the powers of the old age
in a way non-Christ-believers cannot hope to. But he
still knows that, however empowered by the Spirit,
"victory" is not guaranteed until the end of all
things (Rom 8:18-39).

Loren Rosson III
Nashua NH
rossoiii AT yahoo.com

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  • Romans 8.12-13, Christian I. Anible, 12/14/2001
    • <Possible follow-up(s)>
    • Re: Romans 8.12-13, Loren Rosson, 12/16/2001

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