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corpus-paul - Re: Neil Elliot, "Liberating Paul"

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  • From: "Jon Peter" <jnp AT home.com>
  • To: "Corpus Paulinum" <corpus-paul AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
  • Subject: Re: Neil Elliot, "Liberating Paul"
  • Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 13:21:05 -0700


Jeffrey wrote:

>
>
> First, there is to my knowledge absolutely no evidence of Roman spying on=
> Jewish
> Synagogue services.


All governments have intelligence services -- spies, informants, tough cops,
surveillance units etc. When governments decide to take actions against
groups, it is a safe bet that there has been investigative work going on to
determine the nature and extent of the group's activities.


Judaism was a legal religion, their synagogues class=
> ified as
> "collegia", and therefore *legally protected against* the sort of activit=
> y you
> envision.


I don't know what you're referring to here exactly. But I am sure Priscilla
and Aquilla and the other Jews who were expelled from Rome will be happy and
relieved to hear that they were so well protected by the right of habeas
corpus. (Acts 18.2) <g>

In any case, if you're right about Judaism being licitas, then this would
tend to bolster my case even more, wouldn't it? The Christian congregations
were not under legal protection and hence, Paul would have even greater
cause for writing disinformatively as I've been saying.


Moreover, despite the so called disturbance under Claudius Roma=
> n Judaism (of
> which Roman Christianity was a part) was not under a cloud of political s=
> uspicion.
>

Categorically? Never -ever -ever? Never, despite the difficulties in
governing Judea year after year? Not even in the 60s when Legions were
ransacking Judea and Galilee?

You may be right, but I find this hard to believe and would appreciate
evidence or additional arguments.


> Second, there were at least eleven synagogues in Rome. Not a single one h=
> ad pews. Many
> were in tenements and therefore above ground. Window spying would be diff=
> icult.
>

I was speaking figuratively about pews. My point was simply that, in some
way or another, a letter from Paul could easily be employed by the
Christians recipients to communicate the false impression that Christians
revered authority. Another means of doing so would be simply be to show the
police Paul's letters and say 'here, see what our leader tell us to
believe?" A number of such uses for this letter can be imagined.


> Third, so far as we know -- and as Paul himself testifies -- Romans was t=
> he only
> letter of Paul that the Roman congregations possessed or were familiar wi=
> th. So your
> speaking of them as listening to Paul's letters being read aloud is a con=
> siderable
> historical inaccuracy as well anachronism.
>

Okay, I can't show that a second letter existed, and perhaps none ever did.
I would be most interested to know, though, how you can be so confident in
saying that reading a letter aloud would have been anachronistic?


> Fourth, as commentators such as Cranfield and J..H. Yoder have noted, Pau=
> l does
> **not** counsel obedience. He counsels SUNTASIS, which, given the connota=
> tions of this
> word, would have had a quite different ring to it to both Roman Christian=
> as well as
> non Christian Roman ones than you imagine.


The letter says hupotasso in 13.1. Can you help me out on SUNTASIS?


>
> Fifth, as Mark Nanos has argued, there is some doubt that what is going o=
> n in Rom 13
> has anything to do with Roman political authorities. Rather the admonitio=
> n here has to
> do with Gentile Christians submitting to the authority of Jewish synagogu=
> e leaders.
> But on this, I've urged Mark himself to say more.
>
>

Mark N. may be right. In fact, I hope he is. I will listen. If indeed the
authorities in 13.1 are Jewish rather than Roman, then that supports my
contention about the need for Pauline disinformation even further, because
Paul specifically writes about intra-religious spying activity taken against
the Galatian Christians (2.4).

Best regards,

Jon





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