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  • From: "Liz Fried" <lizfried AT umich.edu>
  • To: "Corpus-paul" <corpus-paul AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
  • Subject: RE: "of God"
  • Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 18:48:50 -0400


Let's backtrack a minute here.
The subject title of the letter I responded to initially was "is
justification a pre-Pauline doctrine?" The texts in question Gal 1:1, 11,12
were offered as evidence that the doctrine was not pre-Pauline. This was the
issue under discussion. The issue being discussed was not whether Paul
viewed his doctrine as being acceptable to God. No one is going to doubt
that. That certainly was not being discussed. The issue was whether Paul
derived his doctrine of justification from elsewhere. My response to that
letter was only that his statements in Gal 1 cannot be used to assert the
doctrine is not pre-Pauline. Whether the text in question refers to a
different issue altogether, it certainly may, I don't know. In either case,
my response to the original statement still stands. These statements cannot
be used as evidence that the doctrine of justification outside of the law
originated with Paul.

best,

Liz

Lisbeth S. Fried
Department of Hebrew and Judaic Studies
New York University
51 Washington Sq. S.
New York, NY 10012
lqf9256 AT is3.nyu.edu
lizfried AT umich.edu




> -----Original Message-----
> From: J. Amador [mailto:thevoidboy AT sprynet.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 28, 1999 6:23 PM
> To: Corpus-paul
> Subject: RE: "of God"
>
>
> I am suggesting a slight equivocation on your part. On the one hand, "of
> God" means things like "divine authority", "good", etc., which is not a
> question of pedigree, but of authority. I could say, "such and such is
> God's teaching", the way people said, for example, that being
> anti-communist is "in the Bible" or is "God's word". No, it's
> not, and no,
> it isn't. But one could argue (perhaps torturously) that being
> anti-communist is "of God", meaning the reasoning and values behind it are
> commensurate with the Bible. In other words, "of God", meaning "acceptable
> to".
>
> But that's not what you were saying. You were saying "of God" as though
> the pedigree were the issue; i.e., "from" God, meaning "out of God". And
> then you went on to suggest that such an "out of" reduces the question of
> whether, epistemologically, it was cooked up in Paul's brain or whether
> someone else contributed to it.
>
> Now Paul might have said, and hyperbolically asserted, just such a point -
> "I got it out of God's (my) brain/revelation", but he does so in order to
> emphasize its authority, not its pedigree. He isn't interested
> in pedigree
> at all. Hence his rhetorically creative biography in Gal 1&2.
>
> In other words, even if Paul said "of God" as though it were "out of God",
> the issue here is authority, i.e., "acceptable to". This allows for an
> epistemological nuance your argument was trying to exploit by avoiding -
> that Paul could very well have been influenced by others, but he wasn't
> interested in pedigree, just authority.
>
> Clear as mud?
>
> -David Amador, Ph.D.
>
> >Ok, what does "of God" mean?
> >Does it not mean "divinely inspired?"
> >Does it just mean "good?"
> >Does it mean "having divine authority?'
> >If so, what does that mean?
> >Does that not mean "from God?"
> >Liz
> >
> >Lisbeth S. Fried
> >Department of Hebrew and Judaic Studies
> >New York University
> >51 Washington Sq. S.
> >New York, NY 10012
> >lqf9256 AT is3.nyu.edu
> >lizfried AT umich.edu
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Jeffrey B. Gibson
> >> [mailto:jgibson000 AT mpdr0.chicago.il.ameritech.net]
> >> Sent: Monday, June 28, 1999 9:52 AM
> >> To: Corpus-paul
> >> Subject: Re: Ideas
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> But "of God" is not "from God". It is quite possible that insights
> >> culled =
> >> from reading, pondering, arguing, learning (all very human acts with
> >> human =
> >> agents) could very well be "of God". Paul's assertion is therefore
> >> about =
> >> the validity of the gospel he preaches. He is not arguing so
> much about
> >> =
> >> pedigree as he is about authority and legitimacy.
> >>
> >> -David Amador, Ph.D.
> >> Santa Rosa, CA
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Jeffrey B. Gibson
> >> 7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A
> >> Chicago, Illinois 60626
> >> e-mail jgibson000 AT ameritech.net
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---
> >> You are currently subscribed to corpus-paul as: lizfried AT umich.edu
> >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> >> $subst('Email.Unsub')
> >>
> >
> >---
> >You are currently subscribed to corpus-paul as: thevoidboy AT sprynet.com
> >To unsubscribe send a blank email to
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>
> TheVoidBoy AT sprynet.com
> J.D.H. Amador, Ph.D.
> Dept of Humanities
> Santa Rosa Junior College
> Santa Rosa, CA
>
>
>
> ---
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  • RE: "of God", Liz Fried, 06/28/1999
    • <Possible follow-up(s)>
    • RE: "of God", J. Amador, 06/28/1999
    • RE: "of God", Liz Fried, 06/28/1999

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