Discussion of all things related to Public Domain

[tom poe <tompoe AT amihost.com>]

Hi, Ms. Weber:  I didn't say anything about security.  Please read what
I wrote.  If you use a proprietary voting system that does not permit
public scrutiny of the source code in that machine, you have eliminated
the voter's right to vote.  I would appreciate your not espousing  any
views that run counter to scientific facts.  The use of Diebold or
Sequoia voting systems guarantees the elimination of the voters' right
to vote, and no amount of rhetoric such as your comment, "My goal is
that when the voter casts his ballot, he has some assurance that what he
voted is what is truly recorded and is what is truly counted." cannot be
even remotely accomplished through the use of these two companies'
proprietary systems.

I'm afraid you didn't answer my question about having access to the
Minutes of the Town Hall Meeting.  I wonder if there is a possibility
that we, as part of the audience, will be permitted to record the
meeting with our own recording equipment?
Thanks,
Tom

On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 11:46, Weber, Bonnie wrote:
> Mr. Poe,
> 
> Thank you so much for your great comments and suggestions.  
> 
> I am not so sure that I am as interested in voter security as in preserving
> the voter's right to vote.  I don't believe these are the same issue, do
> you?  My goal is that when the voter casts his ballot, he has some assurance
> that what he voted is what is truly recorded and is what is truly counted.  
> 
> I appreciate your input.  There is some talk that we may change the Town
> Hall meeting so please stay in touch or watch the local newspapers for more
> information.  I have made a hard copy of your email and will most definitely
> ask these questions.  The audience will have the same opportunity to voice
> their concerns and ideas.  Thanks so much.
> 
> Bonnie Weber
> Washoe County Commissioner
> District 5
> (775) 328-2006
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tom poe [mailto:tompoe AT amihost.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 11:25 AM
> To: Weber, Bonnie
> Subject: RE: COMMISSION WEBSITE EMAIL
> 
> Hi, Ms. Weber:  Thank you for responding.
> 
> I will attend the town hall meeting on December 4, 2004 at 6:00 PM in
> the Commission Chambers.  What's the address?
> 
> I'd like to alert you on a couple of points, if I may.
> 
> A proprietary voting system will not work, if you're intent is to
> preserve the voter's right to vote.  It's as simple as this.  If the
> last action in the voting process is for a computer to record the vote,
> then the only way to audit the system, is to have the ability for
> independent review of the source code that performed the recording.  If
> you cannot do that, you might as well have not bothered to vote.  If, on
> the other hand, the last action of the voting process is to print a
> ballot of the voter's selections, and then drop that ballot into a
> sealed box, then the voters' right to vote is preserved.  The country of
> Australia worked through this logistical dilemma, and concluded the ONLY
> solution to moving to electronic voting while preserving the voters'
> right to vote, would be to utilize Open Source voting systems.  Any
> private company that does not permit direct review of their source code
> will not be able to satisfy the criteria for public scrutiny of the
> voting process.  The potential for fraud and/or manipulation of the vote
> count is too great to risk.
> 
> Neither Sequoia nor Diebold have any solutions that are acceptable.
> That is a well-documented conclusion, nor will they ever have an
> acceptable solution, unless they open up their source code to public
> scrutiny.  Dean Heller knows this, and Dan Burk has stated in writing
> that he knows this.  That places the entire Elections Advisory Committee
> in a legal posture, regarding their past, present and future decisions
> regarding the voters' right to vote.
> 
> By the way, Open Source solutions are a fraction of the cost of Diebold
> or Sequoia.
> 
> I won't be one of the "far out nuts" at the Town Hall Meeting, but I did
> want to state these concerns to you for your consideration.  I hope you
> will raise these concerns on behalf of the citizens of Washoe County,
> and please direct them to both Dan Burk and Dean Heller, and make sure
> you get the responses as accurately as possible, as they will be needed
> between now and the election.  I understand that Minutes are provided
> the public from these meetings?
> 
> Thanks,
> Tom Poe
> 
> 
> On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 10:07, Weber, Bonnie wrote:
> > Mr. Poe,
> >
> > I have been a long time advocate of getting people to the polls to vote.
> A
> > paper trail is necessary I believe.
> >
> > The public today doesn't seem to feel very secure about their vote.  I
> > believe that with a new electronic voting system - which sounds like this
> is
> > the way the country is moving - the voter needs to be assured that their
> > vote is being cast the way they want to vote, so yes a receipt (if you
> will)
> > would be perfect and very inexpensive.  Somewhat like a cash receipt that
> we
> > get at the store.
> >
> > I know that both Diebold and Sequoia can make these voting machines that
> > will accommodate the requests of the Voters.  It's now a matter of who
> wants
> > what.
> >
> > I must also share with you however, that I think there should also be some
> > way of producing a paper trail via the actual vote in the machine (a
> checks
> > and balance system) would be very appropriate and not expensive.  Not to
> be
> > used unless there was a problem and used as a recording system.  I don't
> > want to sound like some far out nut - but as we all know there are many
> > people that are very capable of hacking into systems - and we must have a
> > way to prove to people that there vote is being counted both
> electronically
> > and to provide a paper recording system, in my opinion is not a bad idea. 
> >
> > I am wondering if you have ever been involved with the caucusing portion
> of
> > our Washoe County elections - just after an election?  It is an
> interesting
> > process and I hope you will take the opportunity to see it all in action
> > sometime, if you haven't witnessed it for yourself. 
> >
> > Thank you for asking and I would love to have your opinion on this as
> well.
> > Did you also hear that a Town Hall Meeting is being held in our County
> > Commission Chambers on Thursday, December 4th from 6:00-8:00 p.m.?  It's a
> > great opportunity for folks to have input.  The Secretary of State as well
> > as Dan Burke, our Registrar of Voters will be here.
> >
> > Thanks again for your questions.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Bonnie Weber
> > Washoe County Commissioner
> > District 5
> > (775) 328-2006
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tompoe AT amihost.com [mailto:tompoe AT amihost.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 6:04 PM
> > To: bweber AT mail.co.washoe.nv.us
> > Subject: COMMISSION WEBSITE EMAIL
> >
> >
> > Commissioner Weber, you have received an email from the County Commission
> > Website.
> >
> > NAME:.......Tom Poe
> > EMAIL:......tompoe AT amihost.com
> >
> > COMMENTS:
> > ---------------------
> > Hi, Bonnie:  I am glad to read in the RGJ that you are interested in
> > preserving the local citizens' right to vote.
> >
> > Could you explain what you mean by "paper trail"?
> >
> > As I understand it, there are two forms of this term.  One refers to
> > printing out the ballot records following an election, which serves no
> > useful purpose.
> >
> > The other refers to providing a printout of the voter's final ballot for
> > review, then being placed in a sealed container.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Tom Poe
> > Reno, NV      
> >