Development of the Creative Commons Sampling license (or license option)

[mark / negativland <markhosler AT bellsouth.net>]

At 9:11 AM -0700 4/19/05, HeavyConfetti wrote:


What is so unappealing about this sort of thing 
is that it's simply a cynical marketing gimmick 
by (mostly) big name artists. I kinda doubt that 
Mr. Reznor gives a lab rats ass about what anyone 
actually does with these "re-mixes". Comments 
about what he does or does not make available 
seems to miss the point- this is about selling 
more units, nothing more or less...

FYI- in a kind of reply to some earlier posts 
here, as a long time collage artist, I can tell 
you that any media or art out  there that has a 
CC license attached to it is automatically  less 
interesting for us to work with! :)  It's an 
aesthetic thing. With a few notable exceptions ( 
our "U2" being the biggest one), we are more 
drawn to things that are quite obscure and harder 
to find, so that our "found sounds" are more 
unique to us and our work. Anything that is 
officially up for grabs, like  with a CC license, 
is also up for grabs to *anybody* out there. So, 
this makes it less unique, and thus, 
artistically, less desirable to work with. And 
so, while of course we support this "re-use" 
attitude ( and strongly espouse it in our own 
work as well), it makes the found things less 
appealing. For example, I'd never want to do 
anything in a million years with any NIN stuff. 
*Especially* if he made it available for all to 
use!  While  we get sampled all the time ( and of 
course don't mind if folks do it), it seems like 
a rather imaginative way to go- appropriating 
from folks who appropriate! Kinda boring, if you 
ask me!

 We get asked all the time to make our raw 
samples available to people to use themselves, 
but ( and some of you might be surprised by this) 
we have no interest in doing this. Go and find 
your own cool samples, ding dang it! Jeez.... 
:) :) ;)


Mark


At 10:43 PM -0700 4/17/05, Jon Phillips wrote:
> On Sun, 2005-04-17 at 11:39 -0700, g. thomas furgerson wrote:
> >  Creative Commons,
> >
> >  A new development arose just the other day with the release of Trent
> >  Reznor's (Nine Inch Nails) GarageBand mix of Nine Inch Nails' "Hand
> >  That Feeds"  project.
>
> Whoa, this is brilliant to release all the mother formats for tracks. It
> is interesting to think that what we hear on a final CD/mp3 is a
> compressed version that is a composite of so many different layers and
> snippets. If all these pieces were made available with media, I think
> that the public would be able to learn various artistic practices easier
> with this demystification.
>
> >  I don't know if this has been addressed or proposed, but a modified
> >  "Sampling" license may be in order.
> >
> >  The sampling license needs to let "listeners" explicitly understand how
> >  samples and loops in their project mixes (not just the final piece, but
> >  the pieces) may be used in and outside the project from which they're
> >  enclosed.  This is different from "sampling" just a song, or part of a
> >  song.  The project has midi and live performances, Apple and ACID loops
> >  and "one shot" samples.  Each element can can be accessed individually
> >  from a project.  And rather than having to put a license on each
> >  "piece" of the puzzle, it would be much easier to have a blanket
> >  license over all the pieces.  (Read the restrictive license that's
> >  presented when opening the NIN project file.)
>
> Totally agree.
>
> >  This will become much more necessary in the future, as more artists
> >  embrace fans "remixing" and "reusing" their creative ideas by providing
> >  their tracks as GarageBand mixes, especially as more users jump into
> >  using iLife.  (Not to mention the Karaoke type uses when you can drop
> >  the lead vocals out.)
>
> But, at the same time, do current creative commons licenses not support
> this? And, is there a need? Would the master files ("mother format")
> that are used to compose a derivative, (usually called the original), be
> considered the originals? Or, are these original mother formats the
> original files? Maybe this does not matter, and it is what work you
> designate with a license?
>
> >  Just some thoughts.  ( I envisioned this years ago when ReBirth and
> >  then Reason came out, but that was before Creative Commons.)
> >
> >  Creative Commons should also approach Apple about putting an easy
> >  "button" into iLife apps and other creative apps to add a Creative
> >  Commons and Copyright license tags directly into a project, document,
> >  song file or webpage.
> >
> >  Okay, I'll send the suggestion to Apple myself, but I think the
> >  organization or Mr. Lessig would open more ears (Jobs) to the idea.
>
> Yes, this is a great idea. We are implementing a PUBLISH button in our
> next release of Inkscape (www.inkscape.org), an Open Source SVG drawing
> tool, that does what you speak.
>
> Also, our tool already allows people to quickly select a creative
> commons (among others) license and embed it into files edited with
> Inkscape.
>
>
> --
> Jon Phillips
>
> USA PH 510.499.0894
> jon AT rejon.org
> http://www.rejon.org
>
> Inkscape (http://inkscape.org)
> Open Clip Art Library (www.openclipart.org)
> CVS Book (http://cvsbook.ucsd.edu)
> Scale Journal (http://scale.ucsd.edu)
>
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. I trluy doubt t
> I'm glad to see brother Trent being so 
> charitable, but why couldn't he simply do what 
> other
> artists have done: provide a compressed archive 
> including all the tracks in a platform 
> independent
> format (e.g., .mp3, .ogg, or even *gasp* .flac). 
> Then let the remixer use the software/OS of
> his/her choice.  I could even use .aiff, since 
> it can be used on either the mac or pc.  Not sure
> about the linux world...
>
> I am a PC user and have friends who have 
> GarageBand so I can get with them and have them 
> spit out
> the tracks in a format I can use, but I think it 
> would be a good practice in general for "artists"
> to post tracks for public manipulation in a 
> general rather than proprietary format.
>
>
>
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