Development of Creative Commons licenses

[Rob Myers <rob AT robmyers.org>]

I think it would be good to ensure that watermarks/fingerprints can be removed. They have no expressive purpose as part of a work and are essentially spyware.

Nicholas Bentley <nicholas AT commonrights.com> wrote:

Thanks Sarah, Heather,

It is good to confirm that these identifiers/fingerprinting would not form part of the TPM's referred to in the circumvention clause.

Drew raises another interesting question though. If the identifiers/fingerprinting I was talking about were specifically there to identify the right holder / creator of the work and hence formed part of the attribution chain would anyone have the right to remove them as attribution is required under CC licenses.

Regards,   Nicholas

On 23 January 2013 20:24, Sarah Pearson <sarah AT creativecommons.org> wrote:

Hi Drew,

The non-ND licenses grant permission to adapt the work, but it sounds like the identifiers Nicholas is referring to would be something separate from the copyrighted work. In any case, I should have used more precise language. What I intended to convey was that the circumvention clause in the current working language of 4.0d3 is not intended to address that situation.

Thanks for following up!
Sarah

On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 6:51 AM, drew Roberts <zotz AT 100jamz.com> wrote:

On Tuesday 22 January 2013 14:41:41 Sarah Pearson wrote:
> Hi Nicholas,
>
> The only thing I would add to Heather's response is confirmation that
> because fingerprinting/identifiers would not be TPMs under the license,
> licensees would not have the right to remove those identifiers via the
> circumvention clause in version 4.0.

Why would they need a right to remove them? Is there something in the law
currently which denies them this right?

Except for ND, don't the licenses remove the legal prohibitions of altering
the work in any way? (As a work?)
>
> best,
> Sarah

all the best,

drew

>
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 9:12 PM, Heather Morrison <hgmorris AT sfu.ca> wrote:
> > hi Nicholas,
> >
> > A TPM is what it says - a technological protection measure, a
> > limitation on what you can do based on technology. Some common TPMs
> > are when a publisher uses TPMs that make it impossible for you to
> > print a document, to mark up a document, or to print more than a
> > certain amount of pages. With CC licenses you cannot add TPMs to works
> > that prevent uses allowed under the license. It's about changing the
> > work per se as opposed to how you access it, which makes sense because
> > CC deals with copyright.
> >
> > best,
> >
> > Heather Morrison, PhD
> > Freedom for scholarship in the internet age
> > https://theses.lib.sfu.ca/thesis/etd7530
> >
> > On 17-Jan-13, at 11:37 PM, Nicholas Bentley wrote:
> > > Sarah, Greg, Heather,
> > >
> > > I have a follow-up question to this discussion of TPM's.
> > >
> > > If the file/work in question has has identifiers/fingerprinting
> > > attached to it which help identify the right holder, author, CC
> > > licensor, ...,  but does not restrict access to the file is that
> > > considered a TPM? I assume the identifications, whatever, could be
> > > construed as protecting the rights associated with the file but not
> > > the file itself. But, does this mean that licensee does not have the
> > > right under the 'TPM' clause to remove these identifiers if they
> > > don't restrict access? Should a distinction be made between
> > > technical measures protecting rights and those protecting access to
> > > manifestations?
> > >
> > > Thanks for the clarification,
> > >
> > > Nicholas Bentley
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 17 January 2013 17:31, Greg Grossmeier <greg AT grossmeier.net> wrote:
> > > Hello Heather,
> > >
> > > <quote name="Heather Morrison" date="2013-01-16" time="13:06:47
> > > -0800">
> > >
> > > > One question that I have which comes up with respect to open access
> > > > works: what about paywalls imposed by a downstream licensor that are
> > > > not applied TO the work, but rather something people need to address
> > > > in order to get TO the work. I'm not sure if it is even possible to
> > > > preclude this - most of us have to pay for internet access, so one
> > > > could argue that everything on the internet is behind a paywall.
> > >
> > > You point to the general underpinning of the issue; everything in the
> > > world, unfortunately, costs something to gain access to, other than
> > > air
> > > (for now).
> > >
> > > It has never been the interpretation of CC, to my knowledge, that a
> > > paywall (or other login mechanism) was a TPM.
> > >
> > > Keep in mind the reason for the TPM clause is to address the DRM
> > > issue,
> > > which prevents people *who already have the file/work* from using it
> > > in
> > > ways that the license allows. It isn't about people gaining access to
> > > the file/work in the first place.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Greg
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > | Greg Grossmeier            GPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E |
> > > | http://grossmeier.net           A18D 1138 8E47 FAC8 1C7D |
> > >
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