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cc-jo - Re: [CC-Jordan] Comments on CCPL Jordanian Arabic License

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Subject: CC Jordan

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Chronological Thread  
  • From: Ahmad Gharbeia <gharbeia AT gmail.com>
  • To: ramiolwan AT yahoo.com
  • Cc: cc-jo AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [CC-Jordan] Comments on CCPL Jordanian Arabic License
  • Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 20:18:49 +0200

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رسالة Rami Olwan في 10/10/08 17:46:
> Dear Ahmad Gharbeia,


> Many thanks for your interest in the CC Jordan project. We need many
> reviewers like you who have specific comments about the license and its
> translation. I am sorry I cannot reply in Arabic since my keyboard is in
> Latin characters. I have read your comments and I believe some of them are
> quite important. I am not going to go into detail now, but will give a
> general answer to stimulate the discussion further until we provide
> detailed specific answer on each comment you have raised if we deem that is
> necessary.

It's my pleasure. I've been interested in the license for years and I'm
glad to Jordanians undertaking this effort to ease the way for other
Arab initiatives to follow.


> As for the title of the license, it is true that we have mixed between the
> license itself and the legal code. We have tried to find a proper
> translation for both of them, but unfortunately we did not find a proper
> translation for “legal code” as there is no proper terminology in Arabic,
> that is why we decided to join the words to make things clear. I agree with
> your comment that we should stick to the translation of “creative commons
> license”, and find words that give the linguistic and legal meaning to
> “legal code” if that is possible.

Great.
Doesn't "صيغة قانونية" denote "legal code"?
I'm not asserting, but rather hinting.
What's the term used in legislative environments to refer to a مشروع
قانون and its drafted "code"?


> The translation to Arabic of “creative commons” is a more controversial
> matter. One suggestion that we should follow the translation of Arabic
> wikipedia that uses the terms “omameyat” rather than “mashaa” that we used
> in the Jordanian CCPL Arabic license. I think that we are not obliged to
> follow what has been used earlier for "creative commons" in the Arabic
> wikipedia since it is just a suggestion, and there is no official
> translation of the word, furthermore our job is mainly to find proper
> wording that give the needed legal meaning in Arabic.

Controversial indeed. It's been the main point of discussion for long.
I find the translation of Wikipedia holding no authority. We'll update
Wikipedia once an Arabic license is formally published.


> I suggest to stick with “mashaa” since legally speaking the law does not
> recognize the concept of “omameyat” and it sound weird, but the word
> “mashaa” is known and found in legal writings especially property law.
> Jordanian and Arab legal scholars use the term “mashaa” for air and water
> and the idea of creative commons “tragedy of the commons” in western legal
> writings was taken from that as well, but of course its application in the
> context of information commons and creative commons is not found still in
> any Arabic legal writings.

I agree with you that مشاع as used in the contexts of natural resources
and property could be the most suitable. I personally prefer it to
عموميات but I leave the legal debate to those who are more knowledgeable.


> One thing that I have to emphasis is that we have tried to follow the
> original language of the Jordanian Copyright Law as much as possible as the
> main aim of the localizing process is to make the American CCPL license
> enforceable when brought before a Jordanian Court and a judge who is
> familiar primarily with Jordanian Laws.

Agreed. This is the purpose of "porting".
One comment though: I'm assuming that you started from the "unported"
version of the license, right? The one worded in accordance wit IP
treaties, not the "US" version which is localised to USA jurisdiction.


> For that reason, the terminology and definitions used resemble entirely the
> Jordanian Copyright Law; that is applicable on the legal word “collection”
> and many other words that their exact translation from English to Arabic
> may lead otherwise, but our guide is the Jordanian law itself and nothing
> else.

Naturally. No one is proposing literal translations. Yet some
translations may be more suitable than others, depending on many factors
as you mentioned above.


> As for your other linguistic comments, I think they should be studied
> carefully. Ziad will provide in due course a detailed response to each one
> of them. Please feel free to comments on any of the above and provide us
> with your further comments if that is possible. We look forward to hearing
> from you or any other interested reviewer. Thanks everybody for your
> support.

Law is a language-construct. Its all about words, no?

Regards,
Ahmad Gharbeia

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