Cc-hk mailing list

["zunix Ling" <zunix.ling AT gmail.com>]

Dear all,

FMHO, you can consider to do like this to lower both parties cost and trouble in those case. I don't really think anyone would like to initiate any legal action. 

1. Draft an CCLicense alert notice and consult with legal person.
2. This CC License alert notice will be sent to the suspect infringer.
3. This CC License alert notice will also be marked "CC to lawyer on record".
4. Start try to do meditation with suspect infringer out of court but with property documentation
5. Legal action is the last resolve

This will be very low costs and non-sensitive to those organization as it is not a formal legal letter but with legal intention. It should be always try to deal with these with low profile. It may be hard for any suspect infringer to correct mistake with extra costs burden. But formal letter of recognizing the CC License is easier to issue. And those cases can be recorded on website with modest comments. I know this will be a bit compromise to the license notice principle on the article itself. But it can not be put too much, as, it may turn out to be thought fuzzy by the public. For the long term, it should co-host some event with those large company to draw public recognition and acquaintance with CC License.  This is my very brief idea. Hope can inspire more idea.

Regards,

zunix

2008/12/16 Rebecca MacKinnon <rebecca.mackinnon AT gmail.com>

Sorry for not coming in on this discussion earlier. I agree it's not good to sit and do nothing at all. Obviously individuals are free to do and say whatever they want at any time. However, before taking any course of action in CCHK's name I recommend the following:

- Haggen should consult with CCi about how other jurisdictions handle similar situations, and how they recommend that CCHK should handle this one. Especially since I'm sure this is just the first of many similar cases in the future. Thus it's time well spent.
- Simultaneously, consult with the CCHK legal leads on their opinion of the case's merits. Also consult Doreen Wiesenhaus, who runs the Media Law project at the JMSC, if she is available.
- Before taking any action in the name of CCHK, there needs to be close consultation with Prof. Ying Chan to make sure the JMSC, as CCHK's host institution, is aware and agrees with the course of action.
- Longer term, we should develop a list of lawyers and law firms in Hong Kong who are willing to take on pro-bono or low cost cases related to CC-licensed works. It might even be appropriate to help this particular person obtain legal counsel, pending the recommendation of CCi and CCHK legal leads.

Best,
Rebecca

2008/12/16 Jerry~Yuyu <jerry.tschan.yu@gmail.com>

As expected there's a wikipedian meet-up may be on coming weekends, this week or next week

as one wikipedian is trying to book a venue in CUHK

I wonder if any of you can give him a hand, however

if we have a place to discuss this issue, it's good for our action anyway :p

Jeromy-Yu Maximilian Chan
Jerry~雨雨
User:Yuyu
http://jeromyu.info
MSN: jeromyuchan AT msn.com

Deputy President
Wikimedia Hong Kong

http://www.wikimedia.hk
yuyu AT wikimedia.hk

Tel: +852 9279 1601
Laudamus quae laudentur

2008/12/16 Oiwan Lam <oiwan.lam AT gmail.com>

sorry for being slow in picking up this.

the issue has been reported in some local newspaper, if wikipedia continues to pursue and make it a legal case, even if cchk is not taking legal support as our work, i think we need to show some support to the person, and make it a public education.

i think it would be a PR disaster if whenever disputes happen we said, sorry you need to deal with it yourself. i would suggest at least we have a kind of statement to educate people to respect the license we are promoting.

of course, this case is a bit complicated as the mtr might said that wiki shouldn't claim the license in the first place... then it would be another story: as the mtr does encourage netizens to play their road map - and they don't have a cc license statement. which means, it would be a PR disaster for them - they contradict their copyright policy with their promotion practice!

there are some discussion at inmediahk.net about this.

oiwan

2008/12/15 Haggen So <haggenso AT gmail.com>

Sorry with no updates, I have replied his second letter and he thanked Charles and Zunix for the contributions in discussion.

Though we cannot provide legal advice, I will discuss with him and see if there are anything that CCHK can help.

Haggen

2008/12/10 Charles Mok <charlespmok AT gmail.com>

That's great!  In good hands...

2008/12/10 Haggen So <haggenso AT gmail.com>

I will make a reply, but incidentally, I will meet with Yuyu tonight because he needed to do a mock interview for his studies.  We will come up with a co-ordinated response.

Haggen

2008/12/10 Charles Mok <charlespmok AT gmail.com>

In any case we should make a courtesy reply to him, i think.

2008/12/10 Zunix Ling <zunix.ling AT gmail.com>

Yea, Software Freedom Law Center is quite famous with lot of heavy weigh
person to hold it.I also remember what has been done by public patent
that open source our fat32 patient registration. There are helpful.

Regards,

zunix

Haggen So 提到:

> Zunix,
>
> Yes, The short version of the disclaimer in CCHK licences stated:
>
> Creative Commons is not a law firm and does not provide legal
> services. Distributing of, displaying of, or linking to this Commons
> Deed does not create an attorney-client relationship.
>
> Creative Commons不是法律事�账�，亦不提供法律服�铡７职l、展示或�B�Y到授
> ���苏��K不�a生律��和客�舻年P�S。
>
> So technically we don't really have any responsibilities. It is,
> however, possible for us to actively discuss the issue (e.g. put an
> article up in our official site) and recommend legal services if we
> can find some friendly allies.
>
> On the other hand, dual licensing may not be a total bad news. The
> organisation responsible for GFDL is FSF (Free Software Foundation).
> They have recently found the Software Freedom Law Center
> (http://www.softwarefreedom.org/), and this center will give legal
> assistance.
>
> Haggen
>
> P.S. I did receive the same email in the CCHK account, just haven't
> got time to deal with it. Sorry.
>

> 2008/12/10 Zunix Ling <zunix.ling AT gmail.com <mailto:zunix.ling AT gmail.com>>

>
>     Does not want to comment too much on license matter, but as Charles
>     point out. And I have to say, the dual-licensing in this case seem
>     complicated by itself to enforce due to costing and legal foundation.
>     There are many issues. I think CCHK organization just like a
>     certification or standard holder. Administration and enforcement
>     is not
>     under it's scope. am I right?
>
>     Regards,
>
>     zunix
>
>     Charles Mok 提到:
>     > I think we should be very careful about the claim. CCHK being
>     not even
>     > an organization may not be in the right position to do much beyond
>     > facilitating the license. It should be up to the claimant to
>     take his
>     > own action. At this stage, I do not see that CCHK should take side.
>     > Plus, the license was is used is not CCHK license but another
>     version.
>     >
>     > Others pls comment....
>     >
>     > 2008/12/10 Jack Qiu <jacklqiu AT gmail.com

>     <mailto:jacklqiu AT gmail.com> <mailto:jacklqiu AT gmail.com

>     <mailto:jacklqiu AT gmail.com>>>
>     >
>     > This can probably be a good opportunity for public education. I
>     > will, and think all CCHK members should, give this Xavier all our
>     > support. That is, of course, if there is enough evidence to
>     > establish the case and we have good confidence that we can nail
>     > down City Bank.
>     >
>     > Can some members of our legal team give some advice? I'd also like
>     > to hear from Rebecca, Charles, Pindar and everyone.
>     >
>     > jack
>     >
>     > 2008/12/9 Jerry~Yuyu <jerry.tschan.yu <http://jerry.tschan.yu>
>     > <http://jerry.tschan.yu>@gmail.com <http://gmail.com>
>     <http://gmail.com>>
>     >
>     > Halo all
>     >
>     > We found the message that ask for our help
>     > in our spam folder, unfortunately
>     >
>     > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>     > From: *Xavier Fung* <xavier114fch AT gmail.com
>     <mailto:xavier114fch AT gmail.com>

>     > <mailto:xavier114fch AT gmail.com <mailto:xavier114fch AT gmail.com>>>
>     > Date: 2008/12/8
>     > Subject: 有�P�D片侵�嘀��f助
>     > To: wikimedia.hong.kong AT gmail.com
>     <mailto:wikimedia.hong.kong AT gmail.com>
>     > <mailto:wikimedia.hong.kong AT gmail.com
>     <mailto:wikimedia.hong.kong AT gmail.com>>
>     >
>     >
>     > 香港�S基媒�w�f������人台�b：
>     >
>     > 本人�橹形木S基百科的用�簦�名字：Xavier114fch）。早前�l�F本人��
>     > 作的「港�F未�砺肪��D」（http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:
>     > FutureMTRNetworkAfterMerger.png）被花旗�y行（香港）用以宣�髌�
>     > 八�_通信用卡之�V告上。由於本人使用了GFDL及CC的版���l款�l�焉鲜�
>     > �D片，而���V告�K�]有依���l款的�热莅l�眩��偾址赴��嘀�行�椤９孰�
>     > �]　�F��，望能得到�f助��理是次事件。
>     >
>     > 本人��翻查後，�l�F���V告曾於《都市日�蟆贰�《�^�l日�蟆芳啊�AM730》
>     > （http:
>     //www.am730.com.hk/old_issue/issue/2008/200812/20081204/default1.html?
>     > startpage=）上刊�d�^，�V告上的路���D只�@示本人��作�D片之中心部
>     > 分，�K把所有站名去除�K冠以「免�M」字�樱�路���D上��地部份被�Q成
>     > 灰色，�K在�D的左上角加上「交通收�M一�[」的字�印ｏ@然���V告�D片
>     > 是以本人的��作修改，但�]有跟�墓蚕���意（Creative Commons）「姓
>     > 名�耸�-相同方式分享」（CC-by-sa）授���l款（http:
>     > //creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/deed.zh_TW
>     <http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/deed.zh_TW>），�耸颈�
>     > 人的名字及以相容的授���l款�l�眩�是侵犯了本人的版�唷�
>     >
>     > 素��　�F��代表香港的�S基人，�K以推�幼杂���作�樽谥肌１救讼Ｍ�得
>     > 到　�F��的�f助，以便向花旗�y行一方作出交涉，�K以此�C��正��抄�u
>     > �S基百科�M以自由版�喟l���热葜�不良�L�狻Ｍ�能得到　�F��回覆。如
>     > �F��欲和本人���j，��以���]（xavier114fch AT gmail.com
>     <mailto:xavier114fch AT gmail.com>

>     > <mailto:xavier114fch AT gmail.com <mailto:

>     xavier114fch AT gmail.com>>）、�S基用�繇�（User:
>     > Xavier114fch）或����（6028 9641，晚六�r後）通知。
>     >
>     > ��祝
>     > 台安
>     >
>     > Xavier Fung
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > --
>     > Wikimedia Hong Kong
>     > the local chapter of Wikimedia in HKSAR
>     > http://wikimediahk.org <http://wikimediahk.org/>
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Jeromy-Yu Maximilian Chan
>     > Jerry~雨雨
>     > User:Yuyu
>     > http://jeromyu.info
>     > MSN: jeromyuchan AT msn.com <mailto:jeromyuchan AT msn.com>

>     <mailto:jeromyuchan AT msn.com <mailto:jeromyuchan AT msn.com>>

>     >
>     > Deputy President
>     > Wikimedia Hong Kong
>     > http://www.wikimediahk.org
>     >
>     > Tel: +852 9279 1601
>     > Laudamus quae laudentur
>     >
>     >
>     > On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 23:19, Charles Mok
>     > <charlespmok AT gmail.com <mailto:charlespmok AT gmail.com>

>     <mailto:charlespmok AT gmail.com <mailto:charlespmok AT gmail.com>>> wrote:
>     >
>     > Somehow I cannot go to the link below....very slow...
>     >
>     > On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 11:12 PM, Jerry~Yuyu
>     > <jerry.tschan.yu <http://jerry.tschan.yu>

>     <http://jerry.tschan.yu>@gmail.com <http://gmail.com>

>     > <http://gmail.com>> wrote:
>     >
>     > Halo all
>     >
>     > As my fellow Chapter broad member discovered
>     >
>     > a Local Chinese wikipedian had stated on his user
>     > page, claiming that his CC-licensed MTR maps being
>     > trotted by Citibank's Advertisements
>     >
>     > More details can be found on this page on zh.wikipedia
>     >
>     >
>     http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Xavier114fch/%E4%BB%A5CC%E6%A2%9D%E6%AC%BE%E7%99%BC%E4%BD%88%E7%9A%84%E8%B7%AF%E7%B7%9A%E5%9C%96%E8%A2%AB%E5%BB%A3%E5%91%8A%E6%8C%AA%E7%94%A8
>     >
>     > On the page, the user stated that he had sent e-mails
>     > to WMHK & CCHK. We had not receive such e-mail at the
>     > moment, and I wonder if his mail had reached CCHK.
>     >
>     > As the user is not a registered member of our chapter,
>     > so most of our broad member intend to handle this
>     > matter personally at this moment, unless this user
>     > identify himself via register as a chapter member.
>     >
>     > I wonder if any of you had any idea to help him in
>     > this stage
>     >
>     > Jeromy-Yu Maximilian Chan
>     > Jerry~雨雨
>     > User:Yuyu
>     > http://jeromyu.info
>     > MSN: jeromyuchan AT msn.com <mailto:jeromyuchan AT msn.com>

>     <mailto:jeromyuchan AT msn.com <mailto:jeromyuchan AT msn.com>>

>     >
>     > Deputy President
>     > Wikimedia Hong Kong
>     > http://www.wikimediahk.org
>     >
>     > Tel: +852 9279 1601
>     > Laudamus quae laudentur
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > Cc-hk mailing list
>     > Cc-hk AT lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:Cc-hk AT lists.ibiblio.org>

>     <mailto:Cc-hk AT lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:Cc-hk AT lists.ibiblio.org>>

>     > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-hk
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > --
>     > charlesmok.blogspot.com <http://charlesmok.blogspot.com>
>     <http://charlesmok.blogspot.com>

>     > www.it360.hk <http://www.it360.hk> <http://www.it360.hk>

>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > Cc-hk mailing list
>     > Cc-hk AT lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:Cc-hk AT lists.ibiblio.org>

>     <mailto:Cc-hk AT lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:Cc-hk AT lists.ibiblio.org>>

>     > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-hk
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > --
>     > Jack Linchuan Qiu, Ph.D.
>     >
>     > Assistant Professor
>     > School of Journalism and Communication,
>     > The Chinese University of Hong Kong
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > Cc-hk mailing list
>     > Cc-hk AT lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:Cc-hk AT lists.ibiblio.org>

>     <mailto:Cc-hk AT lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:Cc-hk AT lists.ibiblio.org>>

>     > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-hk
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > --
>     > charlesmok.blogspot.com <http://charlesmok.blogspot.com>
>     <http://charlesmok.blogspot.com>

>     > www.it360.hk <http://www.it360.hk> <http://www.it360.hk>

>     >
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>
>

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University of Hong Kong   (http://jmsc.hku.hk)
E-mail: rmack AT hku.hk | Tel: +852-2219-4005
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