Biblical Hebrew Forum

[K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>]

Johathan:

On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 6:29 PM, Jonathan Mohler <jonathan.mohler AT gmail.com> wrote:

…

1. Prov. 31:1-31, as a whole, is gnomic.  the evidence here seems to indicate that the Qatal verb forms carry the mainline, and thus are the principal carriers of gnomicity.  In other words, the gnomicity is the overriding feature of each of these Qatal verb forms.  If these Qatals were coded to Tense, it would be irrelevant.  In fact, I see them, at least in this passage, as tenseless.  

2. The other verb forms then are off-line, in the sense that their role is not to carry the Aspect of gnomicity; instead, they seem to be mostly modal, again, tenseless.  To use Karl's language, when I read a passage of BH, I tend to feel a yiqtol and wayyiqtol as conveying mood, not tense.

How is the mood communicated by the Qatal and Yiqtol different in the passage of verses 11–31?

Example: the first yiqtol is modal.  It is properly translated as "can find" not as "finds" or "will find."

This is verse 10, where I think the Yiqtol is model, indicating a subjunctive mood. But all the following verbs carry the indicative modality, hence modality is only sometimes a reason for the different conjugations. 

3. Let me make a distinction.  The PASSAGE is tenseless.  I think this is where I depart from Rolf, maybe only in respect to how I see this passage.  Rolf, I don't see qatals and yiqtols as exchanging tenses at will (how I interpret you, please correct me if I'm off.)

Karl, I do not believe this particular passage is in the present tense.  The passage is aspective, not tensed (as in Ruth's "the early bird catches the worm."

The passage, verses 11–31, as a whole is imperfective aspect, in that the whole passage refers to repeated or habitual actions in both Qatal and Yiqtol verbs. That’s why I claim that within this passage Biblical Hebrew does not conjugate for aspect.

Besides this passage, I notice that Biblical Hebrew doesn’t conjugate for aspect—it’s just that this passage is so clear that there’s no conjugation for tense nor aspect that it can be used as an example.

A native English speaker, slots the gnomic aspect with the Present form; in my judgment, that doesn't mean it is in the present tense.  It is simply CHARACTERISTIC or HABITUAL.  I think, Karl, I believe I am letting the text speak, as you suggest, and am not imposing an outside model, although I am influenced by Robert Longacre's Text-Linguistic/tagmemic approach.

Let’s consider Ruth’s example, “Listen (imperative) to my thinking (gerund) about the ideal wife. She would be (some sort of modal) someone who always makes your life good (present).  She studied (simple past) hard at school, and she encourages (present) her children to do (infinitive) the same. She's always helping (present continuous) other people.  Once you have married (perfect) her, you will never regret it (future).” In English, the gnomic use doesn’t necessarily refer to the present. But for the discussion here, I notice that all the actions in Proverbs 31:11–31 do refer to present, repeated actions, none to actions in the past nor the future. Or to put it in more technical terms, the time deixis for all the verbs is contemporaneous to the description.

4. It seems to me that the native BH speaker felt the sequential verb forms as modal, even though English versions flatten both verb forms to gnomic. Why? maybe the translators thought it seemed lighter and more accessible to the English ear.

Example:  "She looks (qatal) for wool and flax; and works (wayyiqtol) with her hands in delight." NASB v13

I see all the verbs in this passage, verses 11–31, as indicative modality.

More in line with what a BH writer/speaker probably felt:

"She rises (aspect) also . . . that she may give (mood) food to her household"

Why do you mention aspect in this verse? How is it different from the passage as a whole?

How is the second Yiqtol in this verse different from the first one, that you treat it differently?

5. The fronted wayyiqtol in verse 15 tells us that v14 and v15 are a unit

Agreed. 

14  She is like merchant ships: she brings food from afar

15  She rises also while it is night 

And gives food to her household; 

And portions to her maidens

NASB

better:

she is like merchant ships: 

she brings (qatal/gnomic) food from afar

This second verb in verse 14 is Yiqtol, not Qatal.

 

that she may rise (wayyiqtol/modal) while it is night

and give(wayyiqtol/modal) food to her household,

and portions to her maidens

Mmmmmm … could be read that way, I hadn’t considered that reading. I’d leave out the “may”. It’s still present tense, imperfective aspect as referring to contemporaneous, repeated actions.

6. Exegetically this model seems to be much more fruitful

Can you apply that model approach to all the verses in this passage? I can’t. 

Jonathan E Mohler

Graduate Student

Baptist Bible Theological Seminary

Springfield, MO

It looks like you were thinking through your fingers as you wrote this message.

 

Karl W. Randolph.