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  • From: Chavoux Luyt <chavoux AT gmail.com>
  • To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] GOSHEN was Micrayim vs Misr
  • Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 11:32:58 +0100

Hi Ishnian

On 2 May 2013 04:05, <b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org> wrote:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Ishinan" <ishinan AT comcast.net>
To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Cc: 
Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 22:06:49 -0500
Subject: [b-hebrew] GOSHEN was Micrayim vs Misr
---------------------------------------------
<snip> 
When we talk about 'Goshen', there seems to be a horde of  linguistic problems which have seldom been confronted. 
 
Such as, the conspicuous absence of many essential and unique Hebrew terms referring exclusively to Egypt's landmarks (i.e. obviously giant structures that could not have been missed) the Pyramids, the Sphinx, obelisks etc..
 
Most of all, a proper name for the River Nile. Actually the name of this Mighty River is not found in the Scriptures, but frequently referred to as simply, "the river".
This would rather be consistent with people having lived there and being so familiar with the river that they needed no other name for it.
 

Absence of specific names for typically Egyptian animals like hippopotami and crocodiles.
Rather, these are translated into fantastic and vague terms such as: Leviathan, dragon or behemoth. All of which can be used to mean any fictitious monster.  Ironically, this despite the presence of a lake which lives up to its name: Lake 'TimsAH.' or the 'Crocodile' lake.
I am not quite convinced that these terms were always as vague as you imply. It seems to me more likely that they acquired additional meanings over time. 
  
And then, there is of course the topic of  'cats' or the lack thereof.  This is rather puzzling, especially in the presence of the name 'Bubastis' which served as the capital of the Nome of Am-Khent. FYI, 'Bubastis' was a center of worship for the feline goddess Bas.
In general none of Egypt's gods are named in the Hebrew Bible... I think this was very much on purpose.
 
 
Strangely, this region lies within the vicinity of the same region sometimes called by Herodotus, Hecataeus, Hesiod and Hecataeus as the "Arabian Nome,"  in which 'Goshen' has being often suggested.  Why would the Ancients call it as such if  were not for the obvious presence of Bedouins roaming the area from time immemorial and who were contemporian to Ancient Egyptians in the Nile valley.  
???
 

Finally, when it comes to mentioning 'Camels' we have a bigger problem, in that Ancient Egyptians did not know about camels until they were introduced by Persian conquerors in 525 BCE.  
This, despite Exodus 9:3 which seems to suggest otherwise, "since the Lord spoke of camels as among the prized herds of the Egyptians, along with cattle, horses, donkeys and sheep."
This is an argument from silence. Camels had been domesticated for centuries before then and were simply of little consequence to most settled peoples (like the Egyptians)... what would they do with camels which have never been used for ploughing or in growing crops? Obviously a pastoral people, like the Hebrews, would feel differently about camels.
 
 
Any thoughts about the absence of these essential terms which would normally be descriptive of a long sojourn lasting for over four centuries?
Also keep in mind that "Goshen" refers to a specific part of Egypt (the Eastern Delta) where very few of the large Egyptian landmarks were to be found. If the later Hebrew generations were indeed enslaved, they would not be able to travel all over Egypt to see these landmarks. ... even the storage cities they were reported to have built for Pharaoh, were to be found in the lower delta area of the Nile.

Regards
Chavoux Luyt



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