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Re: [b-hebrew] II Samuel vs. Patriarchal Narratives
- From: JimStinehart AT aol.com
- To: kwrandolph AT gmail.com
- Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
- Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] II Samuel vs. Patriarchal Narratives
- Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2013 17:26:01 -0400 (EDT)
Karl: In response to scholar Robert Polzin’s assertion that the spelling and grammar of Hebrew common words in the Patriarchal narratives is not much different than the spelling and grammar of Hebrew common words in the second half of II Kings, you said: “Now we know that this is utter balderdash,
promulgated by an ideology, better known as a religion, that opposes the history
recorded in Tanakh. It has no
historical evidence, merely belief, to back it up. Here’s a case of GIGO, when you input
wrong beliefs, wrong beliefs come out.” Rather than dismissing out of hand all
scholarly linguistic analysis of Biblical Hebrew regarding dating the texts of
the Bible as being “utter balderdash, promulgated by an ideology”, it is more
helpful to try to pinpoint the basic error that this line of scholarly analysis
has made. Scholars assume, erroneously, that if the
spelling and grammar of Hebrew common words in the Patriarchal narratives is
redolent of late 7th century BCE Jerusalem, then the Patriarchal
narratives must date to that time and place in terms of when they first came
into being as a written text [even if their roots as allegedly being an oral
tradition may be older]: “[A]s far as dating texts is concerned – and dating the texts of the Hebrew Bible is at present the burning issue – it is precisely the evidence of language which must take precedence over historical and theological arguments.” Avi Hurvitz, “Can Biblical Texts Be Dated Linguistically? Chronological Perspectives in the Historical Study of Biblical Hebrew”, at p. 144 in “Supplements to Vetus Testamentum” (2000). That is erroneous regarding the Patriarchal
narratives. The Patriarchal
narratives in fact were never an oral tradition, but rather were written down
from day #1, in the Late Bronze Age.
But that original writing was in Akkadian cuneiform, because alphabetical
Biblical Hebrew either did not exist yet, or else certainly was not advanced
enough to be able to record the sophisticated Patriarchal narratives. It was not until the late 7th
century BCE, in Ian Young, though a non-traditionalist, makes the same mistake in this regard as do the other scholars. He properly notes that a “rhythmic verbal style” dominates Genesis 12-35, large parts of Exodus and Numbers, and I Samuel 1 – 1 Kings 2. Ian Young, “Biblical Hebrew: Studies in Chronology and Typology” (2003), p. 66. But he does not realize that the reason why the Patriarchal narratives and II Samuel have a similar “rhythmic verbal style” is not because they were both first committed to writing at about the same time, but rather is because the ancient Akkadian cuneiform of the original Patriarchal narratives was, for the most part, not transformed into alphabetical Biblical Hebrew until the time when II Samuel was being composed: late 7th century BCE Jerusalem. Even university scholars who are willing to at least consider a very early dating for the Patriarchal narratives still make this same, fundamental mistake: “[H]istorical traditions, patriarchal names, legal customs, and so on…most of the patriarchal material looks more at home in the second millennium than in the first…. But whether a very early date, e.g. thirteenth century, for J, the main redactor of Genesis, or a later date, e.g. tenth century, makes relatively little difference to the question of the reliability of the traditions enshrined in Genesis. At least four hundred years separate the origins of the latest traditions of Genesis from the time they were committed to writing by J or proto-J. This is an enormous time span for oral tradition to be accurately preserved.” Gordon J. Wenham, “Genesis 1-15” (1987), pp. xliii-xliv. Not. The
Patriarchal narratives were in fact committed to writing on day #1, in the Late
Bronze Age. But that writing was
Akkadian cuneiform. Those original
cuneiform tablets were not transformed into alphabetical Biblical Hebrew until
the late 7th century BCE, in The Patriarchal narratives as a written text are really, really old, as we can tell from their (i) substantive content and (ii) archaic proper names. But the spelling and grammar of Hebrew common words is nevertheless basically the same in the truly ancient Patriarchal narratives and in II Samuel, because the bulk of the Patriarchal narratives was not transformed from its original Akkadian cuneiform into alphabetical Biblical Hebrew until the late date and place at which II Samuel was composed: 7th century BCE Jerusalem. Jim Stinehart |
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[b-hebrew] II Samuel vs. Patriarchal Narratives,
JimStinehart, 04/05/2013
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Re: [b-hebrew] II Samuel vs. Patriarchal Narratives,
K Randolph, 04/05/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] II Samuel vs. Patriarchal Narratives, George Athas, 04/06/2013
- <Possible follow-up(s)>
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Re: [b-hebrew] II Samuel vs. Patriarchal Narratives,
JimStinehart, 04/05/2013
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Re: [b-hebrew] II Samuel vs. Patriarchal Narratives,
K Randolph, 04/07/2013
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[b-hebrew] Hebrew was linguistically isolated?,
George Athas, 04/08/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Hebrew was linguistically isolated?, Rev. Bryant J. Williams III, 04/08/2013
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Re: [b-hebrew] Hebrew was linguistically isolated?,
Yigal Levin, 04/08/2013
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Re: [b-hebrew] Hebrew was linguistically isolated?,
K Randolph, 04/08/2013
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Re: [b-hebrew] Hebrew was linguistically isolated?,
Will Parsons, 04/08/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Hebrew was linguistically isolated?, Dave Washburn, 04/09/2013
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Re: [b-hebrew] Hebrew was linguistically isolated?,
Will Parsons, 04/08/2013
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Re: [b-hebrew] Hebrew was linguistically isolated?,
K Randolph, 04/08/2013
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Re: [b-hebrew] Hebrew was linguistically isolated?,
K Randolph, 04/08/2013
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Re: [b-hebrew] Hebrew was linguistically isolated?,
Uzi Silber, 04/08/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Hebrew was linguistically isolated?, K Randolph, 04/09/2013
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Re: [b-hebrew] Hebrew was linguistically isolated?,
Uzi Silber, 04/08/2013
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[b-hebrew] Hebrew was linguistically isolated?,
George Athas, 04/08/2013
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Re: [b-hebrew] II Samuel vs. Patriarchal Narratives,
K Randolph, 04/07/2013
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Re: [b-hebrew] II Samuel vs. Patriarchal Narratives,
K Randolph, 04/05/2013
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