Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Nir cohen - Prof. Mat." <nir AT ccet.ufrn.br>]

karl, 

thanks for your reply.

De: K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>
Data: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 13:01:35 -0800
>>> Third, “his people” isn’t referenced in this verse.

you are jumping to hasty conclusions here.
let us stick to the facts. this word appears 4 
times in this chapter, three of them clearly mean "his people" 
but not "with him". on the fourth, it is your private opinion
that (MW reads "with him", contrary to all the 
accepted translations. 

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>> Other than the theological explanations you listed ...
>>> ... it raises a warning flag in my mind

this is a kind of empty accusation to which no answer is
possible, or worth while. after all, we are discussing a 
theological document, a theological-national ode of victory
and a theologically charged root. can we ignore all that?

besides, you can rest assured i have no theological inclinations whatsoever.

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>>> is there any verse where KPR is necessarily connected to the meaning of
“wipe out”? I know of none.

as there is absolute divergence among the scholars what is the basic 
hebrew meaning of the verb KPR, rather than the derived meaning 
"expiate", we are both at a dead end here. but "wipe off/wipe out" 
is indeed among the main candidates, along with "cover" and 
"annul" etc. see the three sources quoted in my last email.

few places have the explicit sense of "cover". maybe only once in gen 6 where
it oddly is in binyan QAL and could also be translated as "smear". some
corroborating evidence for "cover" comes from arabic. 

on the other hand, the verbs KPR and MXH=wipe out are parallel in 
jer 18:23. a less clear, but perhaps more DRASH thought-provoking, 
juxtaposition of the two verbs is found in ex. 30-33. for "wipe off/wipe 
out" once again i suggest p 28-29 of "blood rituals" in 

http://books.google.com.br/books?id=qfddOUt3K-QC&pg=PA29&lpg=PA29&dq=KPR+hebrew+wipe&source=bl&ots=DTbTOP-9Cy&sig=gGdNvObZUOwuJC17ZMBlTB6lMyQ&hl=pt-BR&sa=X&ei=fXfaUKKIPIyK8QSN7YGAAQ&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=KPR%20hebrew%20wipe&f=false

he reaches the conclusion that (i) a likely translation for the D-form of 
KPR in akkadian (parallel to hebrew piel) is "wipe off/remove by wiping" and
similars. (ii) it is possible that the original BH meaning was similar.
tim hegg in 

http://www.google.com.br/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDcQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.torahresource.com%2FEnglishArticles%2Fkafar%2520study.mell.pdf&ei=fXfaUKKIPIyK8QSN7YGAAQ&usg=AFQjCNHZ9OgWHZcUSRN5Q1u3A8p4Od2ewg&bvm=bv.1355534169,d.eWU

also cites "wipe off/wipe out" as a hebrew possibility. 

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>> I need to see it in Tanakh in order to say that it’s relevant. 

i respect your opinion but do not accept it as a necessary 
prerequisite for any meaningful discussion.

nir cohen