Biblical Hebrew Forum

[ps2866 AT bingo-ev.de]

Dear Steve,

thank you for your thoughts on Hag 1,14 and greetings to Detroit!

You wrote:
>I don't see a reason for God to emphasize "you (plural)" in
>Hag 1:4, but it could be that God is emphasizing you 2 anointed leaders
>from v1.
Haggai discussed the fact that the house of God is currently desolate and
waisted. This may serve as counterpart of the people dwelling in winscoted
houses at the same time. In this regard I'd understand this as antithesis.

Don't you agree?
Yours
Peter M. Streitenberger, Germany


> Peter,
> Thank you for bringing up an excellent discussion.
>
> Darby's translation is similar to Luyt's:
> Hag 1:4  Is it time for you that ye should dwell in your wainscoted
> houses,
> while this house lieth waste?
>
> In 1 Sam 24:25, Abigail's emphasis on the sin being on "me" makes sense to
> be emphasized. I don't see a reason for God to emphasize "you (plural)" in
> Hag 1:4, but it could be that God is emphasizing you 2 anointed leaders
> from
> v1.
>
> I was thinking that the ATEM (you plural) could be the very common ETAM
> (with them) with different vowels.
> Then it would mean: Is it time for you with them to dwell in your ceiled
> houses, and this house lie waste?
> The "you" is the leaders addressed in v1, Zerubbabel & Joshua.
> The "them" is "this people" in v2, who say the time is not come, the time
> that the Lord's house should be built.
> God is telling these 2 anointed leaders not to follow the people's
> apathetic
> procrastination but to exercise leadership to build God's house.
>
> Sincerely,
> Steve Miller
> Detroit
> www.voiceInWilderness.info
> You have put gladness in my heart,
> more than in prosperous times
> when their grain was in abundance,
> as well as plentiful new wine.
> In peace will I both lay down and sleep,
> for Thou Lord alone
> causes me to dwell securely,
> without care before Your throne. (Psalm 4:7-8)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of
> ps2866 AT bingo-ev.de
> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 2:51 PM
> To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: [b-hebrew] Syntactic role of "you" in Hag 1,4
>
> Dear Luyt,
>
> thank you ! I came to the conclusion that ATEM (you) may be affirmative as
> the Septuagint translates the particle MEN after "you" in Hag 1,4,
> indicating an emphasis. Then I found a further example in 1Sam 25,24 where
> it states: "Ki-aNI aDoNi HeAWon" - "on me, yes me, my Lord, is the guilt".
> I thought initially the way you suggested, but can't rule out the idea of
> stressing the suffixed pronoun by  using another pronoun.
> Any further help is appreciated !
> Yours
> Peter M. Streitenberger, Germany
>
>> Shalom Peter
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>
>> From: ps2866 AT bingo-ev.de
>>>
>> To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
>>>
>> Cc:
>>>
>> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 14:56:35 +0200 (CEST)
>>>
>> Subject: [b-hebrew] Syntactic role of "you" in Hag 1,4
>>>
>> Dear Friends,
>>>
>>
>> I can't understand the syntactic role of ATEM (you - mas. Pl.) in Hag
>> 1,4.
>>
>> Is this pronomen stressing the preceeding LaKHeM "for you", say "you
>>
>> yourselves" ?
>>
>> I would translate it directly as: "Is this the time for you, for you
>> to sit in your own houses..." . It does not sound quite right in
>> English, but does sound right to me in Hebrew. :-) The first LaKHeM
>> refers to the time while the ATeM refers to the sitting in their
>> houses.
>>
>> Are there parallel examples for this usage ?
>>>
>> I am not aware of other examples (but there might be). However, do
>> keep in mind that Hagga was written in post-exilic Biblical Hebrew and
>> there were definitely some changes in the language compare to the
>> Biblical Hebrew from before the exile. So it is possible that this
>> usage was more common after the exile compared to before (when the
>> majority of the TaNaCH was probably written).
>>
>>  HTH
>>
>> Blessings
>> Chavoux Luyt
>
>